Of all the other things like the Malta civ feeling like a rushed MOD instead of a well polished civ, i want to ask the devs, what’s with the modern Italian flag? You think that somebody will associate the flag of The Kingdom Of Italy with ww2 and the atrocities of the Duce? I can bet my a** that thats why they didnt went with the KoI flag and put the modern post '46 one. And NO. None of us will go to twitter and post how bad you people are for having the AUDACITY to put the historical flag of The Kingdom Of Italy. The Duce was like 3 years in power and reverted to the allies, and we are talking ww2 here - in a game about THE AGE OF EXPLORATION. So please do the community a favour and put the true historical flag - if you wanna be consistant like what you did with the Native Americans’ flags (even though you messed up the Lacota one by “trying to fix it” and didnt put the red flag with the sun). You did the same with the Bettsy Rose - American flag. Why not that one instead of the more modern one hm?
As for the lack of unique voice-lines for the introduced royal families - dont come to me with the “budget” thing. Just announce “we need volontier voice actors” and hudreds of people will show up. Give them the lines and pick the best of the best. Thats how we were creating mods and keeping the game alive for this long. The community is willing to do stuff for free for the game to be fully enjoyable - keep that in mind if you “dont have the budget”. Example - as a modder i can create a lets say Hugary civ, and it will be polished, i will send the files to you and i will not even ask for credit. Thats the AOEIII spirit devs. So again - do us a favour and dont use modern flags in a historical game (unless of course the historical flag is still the same today, as with the Haudenosaunee one).
I hope some dev reads this and think about it for a second.
-Lyvione-
BTW many of the new royal family units are German, or Swedish, or Russian. What make you think they need new voice lines?
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The United provinces of Italy lasted for 2 months and the United provinces of Central Italy - as you can see lasted for about a year. The Official Flag Of The Kingdom Of Italy - Regno d’Italia is the green,white,red with the Savoy shield. All these flags you posted here are republics that existed before the unification in 1861 under the crown of Victor Emanuel II. As for the voices and representation there is a more in-depth topic and i didnt want to repeat the guy’s words. Just mentioned it as an issue and offered a fix.
Here: Disappointment with representation
This here is the flag of Regno d’Italia 1861-1946
But the “modern” flag existed much earlier and have been used as a symbol of the “Italians” (not the Kingdom of Italy or Italy as a country) for quite long. And this Italian civ combines several states and the papal state, and the capital is Venice, not exclusive to the Sardinia-Kingdom of Italy line. The flag with the Savoyard coat-of-arms limits it to Sardinia. Just like why they changed the Prussian flag to the HRE.
Kalmyks and Bashkirs were in the game back in 2005 and they spoke Russian since then. Blame ES for that.
Maybe someone could correct me, but the difference between Swiss German and “the” German is much greater than Bavarian or Saxon or Austrian German.
And they intentionally chose those houses that have widespread influence, not limited to one country. So say the Wittelsbach units are not exclusively Bavarian and Habsburg units are not exclusively Austrian. The unit names are actually very generic.
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the tricolor flag was used, as i said in several not much lasting republics. The “Italians” civ with Venice as a capital should have been called just Venetians or they could have just used the flag of The Most Serene Republic Of Venice instead of the tricolor which is mostly known from the unification onwards. And i will correct you because my sister-in-law is German and Bavarian vs Saxon as dialects are pretty different. As for Austrian German and Swiss German - big differences and very tough to understand - the Bern swiss one is a mish-mash and u have to have lived there for quite a while to catch what they are saying - being one that has learned/studied Hoch Deutsch. Its like Scouse vs RP English. As for the Kalmyks and Bashkirs, the point is not to blame but if this is a “definitive edition” and they changed the lines of the Native Americans - they can easily do that with them too.
I wrote a whole paragraph, and you didn’t even read it…
Bersaglieri is Sardinian. The leader (Garibaldi) is Sardinian. The whole Papal stuff is from the Papal State. Some shipments refer to Genoa, Savoy, Florence, etc.
This is not a “Italy” civ or a “Venice” civ. This is “Italians” in general, and you have to pick one leader, one flag and one city state for it. That’s the result. The “Germans” is exactly the same case. It is not “Germany” or “HRE”.
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Yes, ‘civs’ in aoe3 are mostly an aggregation of a culture like ‘italians’ ‘indians’ ‘spanish’. It is not about a specific kingdom or duchy. There always will be some inconsistency and there is no more correct answer for these things.
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…I can tell you as a Chinese there are quite a few dialects that sound like a different language from one who is familiar with Chinese. But all Chinese units in the game speak quite standard Mandarin. I’d say Mongol units probably should speak Mongolian instead of Mandarin Chinese, but I don’t think it’s necessary to give every Chinese unit a different dialect.
I’d also like to see royal house units with different German dialects of course, but (1) that is not conventional in the game (2) as I’ve mentioned, the design of the royal houses are actually rather generic. You cannot limit them to Bavaria, or Austria, etc.
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I read the whole thing and im still saying - even though - as you say - the “Italians” civ is not Italy - the most known flags representing “The Italians” are The Venetian one and The Kingdom one. Naples was under Spain and Genoa used a white flag and a red cross. Florence used the red flower. No tricolor from the most known italian states that ever existed pre-unification. Milan also used a white flag with a red cross, and the german eagle. That is my point and my nitpick with the Tricolor not having the savoy shield and crown when representing “Italians” as a congregation.
Im more frustrated about the wrong usage of flags to be frank.
This is my speculation:
The Venetian flag is specific to Venice. The Kingdom flag has a big Savoyard coat-of-arms on it, and that is going to limit the scope to either Sardinia, or the Kingdom of Italy after unification even more.
But because the civ is generic Italians just like Germans is generic Germans (not Prussia), they picked the most generic flag out there. The tricolor is not only a national flag. It had become some nationalist symbol before the unification. That’s the same reason why the Prussian flag for Germans is changed to the HRE flag. Not because it represents HRE only, but that flag at least once applied to all “German” people.
By that logic they may put the Roman flag because it was “once used” and we are supposed to be OK with that. And i agree - that flag should be the Prussian flag not the HRE one. My point is the double standards. They went over their heads with the Native Americans, changed the flags only to be the CORRECT ones(which as i pointed they messed-up the Lacota one even more) and mind you - the voicelines twice, but they put a generic tricolor for the Italians. That is my point mate. I get what you are saying.
No - because that flag stands for UNIFIED Italians and will not limit the scope to Sardinia.
If you disagree - its fine - but the double-standards are palpable.
Idk how changing part of the game to be more historically accurate while leaving some not-so-accurate is double standard. Would you say some civs having more cards is double standard? Some civs being weaker is double standard? Only some DE civs having multiple language regular unit is double standard?
BTW Chinese voicelines are also redone. I’m happy with that. Japanese voice lines have yet to receive some rework. I think it would be great if they do. But that is not double standard.
Not to mention, none of the native American flags are more accurate in the DE version. Aztecs probably never had a flag. I wonder where that is coming from.
But it has a Sardinia coat-of-arms. It’s more comparable to maybe the red white stripe flag of Austria or the yellow black stripe flag of Habsburgs.
The HRE flag is not the symbol of one ruling family or sth.
And the Roman flag is not relevant for the time period. I suppose you probably know that.
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Imagine being this mad at the italian flag.
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Thats the definition of double-standard. As for the cards and the weaker/stronger civs- that goes into balance and their incapability to balance the game. We are talking flags and voicelines rn and yes everything u mentioned falls under the double-standards umbrela. If you gonna fix the flags and the voicelines for some civs and leave others as they are - that is doube-standards. Because you put a “standard” that this and this needs to be accurate but in the meanwhile you leave something else not to be accurate.
Yes, Hoop. @HoopThrower . Not for the italian flag only - but as i said the fact of the double-standards is what frustrates me. Now you imagine putting a generic tricolor and call it a day.
Just to clarify I’m not saying the current Italian tricolor is the most fit flag ever. I can actually do with any other flag that existed in the time period. Even if it’s Venice or the papal state. My argument is that flag is plausible.
Since 2005 I have heard a million people who probably read a few wikipedia pages, spotted a few inconsistencies, and began yelling why Napoleon had fleur-de-lis as the flag, or why the Chinese covering both Ming and Qing had a late Qing flag. I as a long-time historical nerd never thought it as a problem. Because it is a game covering 400 years and the concept of some civilizations didn’t even exist at the beginning or last to the end. But you have to pick one flag, one leader, and one home city.
I now begin to think that was a bad move as it made people nutty about the “aCcUrAcY”. Maybe simply give no personality or flag at all just like AOE2 and people will be happy.
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I would prefer the flag of Italy with some symbol in the middle because that would give it that more “retro” tone that I like the flags that represent the countries in the AOE3 to have.
Also, the flag with a symbol was the flag of the Kingdom of Italy from 1861-1946.
Kingdom of Italy - Wikipedia
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Exactly @pwaopwao . At least someone digs the retro vibe
