Franks once again escape the nerf hammer

As a reminder Franks have been sitting at 54% (1600+) on arabia for at least 2 straight years, and have once again escaped the PUP nerf hammer yet again despite one of the three most popular civs across this time frame.

Here are their bonuses;

Civilization bonuses

  • [Farm upgrades are free.
  • [Castles are 25% cheaper.
  • Mounted units have +20% [HP (starting in the Feudal Age).
  • [Foragers work 15% faster.

Team bonus

[Knights have +2 [Line of Sight.

Would it kill the devs to nerf the castle discount? There are dozens of (probably better) nerf suggestions on these forums. Why do they evade all nerfs?


Memb read a change list where it was stated Franks would get 20 % discount now.

Sounds like the Vikinds getting even stronger… But a bunch of average or above average civs nerfed lol

They should lose the castle bonus completely


Hi equalizer!!!

And I think the cavalry HP bonus should be just starting at the castle age.

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The castle doscount is the most fun bonus the civ have, everything elae is more relevant to the meta anyway.

I would rather remove the free farm texhs and buff their berry bonus

Also Franks have been outshined lately


Eventually, any new civ would be very welcomed to have the Franks’ discounted castle.
I don’t care if it will ‘‘kill the identity’’ of the civ. They were always remembered by knights and not castles.

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All right, I really disagree with this.

  1. Franks were slightly nerfed in the past few years: the foraging bonus was reduced, additional HP for cav started applying at Feudal Age, Chivalry was pushed to Imperial and made cheaper.
  2. The meta has shifted towards Camels and Monks, both of which are really good against the Franks. We can not anticipate what the current PUP will yield, but pikeman got cheaper, and infantry being encouraged is indirectly buffing pikemen as well.
  3. Franks are one of the most popular civilisations, which means people know how to play them better. Even at high Elo. Only above 1900-2000 could you maybe make the case this should not play too much of a role at all.
  4. I found 53.5% win rate above 1600 Elo, on Arabia. In the top five, but behind Berbers and Hindustanis (the latter of which should change). Arabia and open maps are by far their best settings, as they have poor navy, and are unremarkable on Nomad or closed maps.

I suppose this is what people here are ranting about: 1 vs 1 Arabia. Yet, nerfing them here would nerf them everywhere. It is fine to have good civs, especially if that is 53.5% on their top setting, and not 60%. You will moreover notice that all pros, casters, etc. put Franks in A tier in Arabia, not S.

At last, if anyone really wanted to nerf Franks, the right way to do it in my opinion would be to touch their foraging bonus, to make them more exposed early. This way they would nerfed on Arabia, but not as much on other settings. But this is probably unnecessary.


Berbers is also a crazy civ. One of the best cav civ (hussar/knight/camel) but has FU champion, skirm, castle age crossbow, good navy, hand cannoneer, bbc +siege engineer

Yes please, that bonus helps them so much in the mid game and even late game, they don’t even need it, nerfing it wold be nice

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Either the berry or castle bonus, has to go.


A civ which most unique thing is +12 hp on paladins isnt really what I want

If Burgundians had cheap castles sure they coukd lose it but in the case of Franks without it they will be dull as gñfuck and will probably still just as good for noobs

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FE devs are Franks fan boys. They’re the ones who gave squires, chivalry, initially 25% faster berries.
They won’t nerf in any impactful way. Best we could see is something nearly a non-nerf change like 15% extra hp in feudal and 20% from castle age for cavalry, or 10 seconds increase in chivalry research time.

That meta has been around since the last DLC release and didn’t affect Franks. In spite of having two super strong camel-monk civs before their nerfs, Franks were still 2nd highest winrate.

Before that 60+% winrate.

I see this comment over and over and over again. Civ’s popularity is determined by the strength of its bonuses. Huns were the most popular once upon a time when they had 25% discount on CA, Cumans were the most popular when DE released. People didn’t magically learn Cuman 2-tc play or magically forget Huns all-in CA gameplay. When bonuses are moderate and not stacked up, they become harder to use. Whereas if you have too many complementary bonuses, you can make mistakes and the plethora of bonuses will still help you get back in the game.

Before DLC release - they had the highest pickrate, the 2nd best win rate in 1v1 Arabia 1600+. 54.5% and mayans 55.9%.
AoE Pulse
After DLC even though 2 very strong and perceived as broken camel civs came out, they still stayed the 3rd highest winrate just only behind those two.
AoE Pulse

Most played civ in 1v1, most played civ in TG, and the civ that has received the least number of changes while all competing top civs like Aztecs, Vikings, Lithuanians, Khmer, Hindustanis, Gurjaras have gone through several nerfs.

That would be fantastic. That wasn’t an OG bonus for the civ. It was an unnecessary addition from the FE devs.

It’d actually impact them on all maps with berries. That faster berries is like 100+ extra resources in under 15 mins on top of free horse collar and extra hp on scouts.

The number of eco bonuses is…ZERO. Very well balanced civ in terms of eco vs military. Generic economy, amazing military.

Ok, then how about they keep the berry and castle bonus but lose extra hp on cavalry, lose mill bonus, get bloodlines like every cavalry civ and +12 hp on stable units comes as an additional effect of imperial age UT.


Thanks Pulikesi25, for the excellent reply. Horapallas, I have to say I agree with basically everything Pulikesi25 said.

I suggested the discount on castles as I see that as a way to nerf them without impacting their arena (2nd most popular map) win rate.

It is kinda strange that one civilisation has a bonus for two different food sources, farms and berries.
It would be nice to be able to give the berry bonus to a different or even new civilisation.

Just from a design perspective, not directly thinking about balance.


Correct me if I am wrong but, Berbers have faster vils from dark age which is a really good eco bonus, specially for food gathering which is the main bottleneck for cavalry…

Plus, discount could be an indirect eco bonus.

Plus, plus… all ships move faster… including fishing ships.

Zero eco bonus you say?

Do you have proof he is Equalizer? If not this is slandering for ban evasion

I don’t have much issues with Franks, but if they are going to nerf Franks, then best option would be to take the berry bonus and give it to Koreans with the original 25% or higher bonus.


Before that the civ was considered to be non competitive by the pros.

Thats not what he means by high level. In high level Franks are behind a wholw bunch of diferent civs and they are only that strong on arabia. Thats why the devs dont nerf them more.

Thats an stupid ammount of nerfs. The farming bonus is the back bone of the knight spam, by removing it but buffing the berry bonus the Franks will become harder to play but still hopefully competitive for pros whoch should be our objective. The berry bonus isnt that good (in fact I think even wothout the berry bonus the civ will remain in the top 5 for people with less than 1200 elo)

What you are proposibg seems based only in dumb hate.

Franks actually got buffed since they got gamberson this patch