French are broken

Nah nah nah … They’re just following an AoE tradition of French having OP cav .

Because that’s boring. There are people that want to play other civs. But right now you either play 200% or auto-lose vs French.


Minor correction, it’s not necessarily the cav that’s broken. It’s the eco behind it. Well that’s for aoe2 and 4, not sure about 3.

In aoe3, french eco are decent (depend if we talk about late game where they have a very great eco) but their cav was broken in late game by far (nerfed in DE)

french knights get 80 more HP than regular ones (as well as other bonuses) in castle age

i thought feudal knights were OP, but it’s looking like the whole civ is just a cheat mode

you’re forced to commit thousands of resources to countering a feudal knight rush before you even have time to scout the map because they dumbed the game down so much for the starcraft players (why is dark age just 2 minutes long? they need to learn how to play age of empires before making an age of empires game). meanwhile, french gets to just make eco while the resources you’re forced to spend on defense are basically dead weight


Oh I remember the instant gendarme days!

Can you explain the relationship between


What does current imbalance in civs have to do with the “dumbing down” or more respectfully, more accessible to new users.

Further-- what does StarCraft have to do with this game? Do you have a source on if there is a relationship between age of empires 4 and StarCraft that the developers have spoken on?


knights at 4 minutes makes the game less accessible, not more. it dumbs down any strategy and makes it more about clicking speed and reaction times

aoe 1. aoe 2. 7-9 minutes before starting the advance to the next age
aoeo. 4-5 minutes
aoe4 french. 2 minutes

aoe4 had a longer dark age before (4 starting workers instead of 6). speeding it up made it more like starcraft and less like age of empires, and now people have to scramble/panic to thwart the feudal age rushes instead of just calmly setting up whatever defenses are needed. panic-building means more idle time, less optimal placement, less efficiency. it means sending multiple builders to complete a task instead of just using one (this is much more expensive). and they even made walls cost more if they are multiple segments, so you if you can’t wrangle the excessively zoomed-in camera to immediately find the perfect spanning-line and make sure none of it is obstructed by fog of war, it costs more resources

i even played a game where the spears didn’t bother to complete the wall i told them to build because they decided to start from the middle instead of one of the ends. that game against french was over instantly. if there was an actual dark age like a normal age of empires game, then i would had time to babysit those builders and make sure they correctly did what i told them to. i would have had time to double-check that the wall was complete. but instead we have to play a game where knights are being produced at 4 minutes and there’s no time for anything.

And what does that have to do with StarCraft?

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The French civ is a curse in all aoe games:

Also in AOE 2, Franks are literally the highest pick in literally all ELO ranges in 1v1 open maps and insta pocket civ in TG with such good eco bonuses and broken imperial age UT (Chivalry), Franks became into a horrible plague in TG


What is consistant in AoE serie is, France always a boring civ :smiley: (it’s probably for historical accuracy, and i am french)

I’m inclined to agree, but this is a bonus in AoE2 and works fine.

It could maybe be ok if it were their only economic bonus (and still maybe nerfed a bit). It is definitely too much with everything else they have.

I’d kind of like to give their cheaper economic buildings to Delhi.

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I have no problem taking down French with Mongols. Mongols won 90% of the time they were chosen in the recent aoeIV 20k tournament.

How is the Mongol’s win rate at lower ELO levels?

Probably not very high due to their complexity. The TC cheese has been dealt with, so low ELO players won’t instantly crumble when fighting them.

I watch a few low level plays a day. Mongels are rarely picked, but when they are they are generally ok. The newer players make one trick all horsemen or mag armies. They fall behind if the game drags on and lose by then, since their economy is complex and they still rely on one trick armies.

French and English and surprisingly the Chinese are picked quite often at the low elo groups. Obviously the French players do great since their one trick all royal knight armies basically soft counter everything, even buildings.

I play Mongols a lot, they are my main, and Delhi sultanate. Mongols are very strong indeed. I think the movement speed buff from yam network should be nerfed a little bit. And the building movement speed is also way too fast.

French win rate was not that high in the tournament because almost everyone on the ladder always played french for weeks before the tournament. People found the proper strategies against them and that’s it. Mongols are not in this state yet. A few early rush strategy works quite well, as people don’t make outposts. (spearmen rush in dark age with outposts).

But ofc they could be much stronger in pro’s hands, and that’s possible they are op. Actually, I think Abbasid can be faster with ram rush than mongols.

I think every civ has good strategies but the early rush capable civs are much better than the middle and late ones. Like Chinese and Delhi.

So overall french is still very strong, just everyone tries to do the same knight rush, and people already know how to play against it.

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French will get nerfed some. I doubt it will be to the impact people want

I keep hearing that the french are not OP now. I dunno. I guess that Genesis bit that took place, pro players were talking about it. But Should things only be nerfed if proplayers consider it that way? IIRC Wasn’t the french played a lot in that Tournament?

But the Casual community also needs to be catered to-- If there is a disparity in the strength of the french in that area then it still should be addressed-- Pro players can adapt more easily then their casual counterparts-- and players relying on that strength to gain rank, well, they are not really at that rank if they need to rely on playing something Overpowered.

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French being beat hard by Abbasid and Mongols in recent tourney. I’ve been thinking about it alot. I’ve mostly been playing HRE/Abbasids and after you learn how to deal with French feudal knights, the match up becomes really easy. Mongols have been shitting on French as well. I’d still say French needs some eco bonuses removed like free blacksmith tech and resource drop off, Feudal hulk removed and chivalry moved to Age 2.

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I’m just going to bump this real quick to show what they’ve done to fix the French, as I’ve definitely seen how much of a concern this is.

For balance and bug fixing, we’ve got loads of changes to share with you in our release notes when this update lands, but here are a handful of adjustments our balance team is particularly excited about:

  • French Hulk ship tweaked to no longer rule the high seas.
  • Crossbowmen, Spearman and Elite Crossbowmen will pose a greater threat to Cavalry.

This will provide a hardier counter to the rather powerful French (and early Rus) knights. The French are also receiving an unspecified nerf to their Hulk. I’m not sure what the latter entails, but I hope it’s substantial.