They use some data algorithms and third party advise to help them with their balancing (Read that somewhere). they should at least test what they are changing before they throw it at the masses…
just watched the dev’s stream on Twitch
a hotfix is coming next week and it wont have any delhi bugfixes or buffs. we are truly fcked till spring
The paper numbers are accurate and testable in-game, nice anecdotes though. You literal state in your premise that you don’t think civs should be balanced, so you seem kinda stupid. Keep writing walls of text though, won’t be reading it.
In Imperial you can build delhi universities which can each hold 20 scholars so you’ll never need 27 mosques unless you’re trying to heal during battle???
Also the number of scholars you need per Age went up 1, 2, 6, ■■■■-too-many for dark feudal castle Imperial respectively. Outside the last one that’s not a huge deal.
The sacred site thing had to be changed bc it was the exclusive way to play delhi optimally. Anyone competent was doing it and the devs revealed it was the exclusive playstyle used by FARRRRRRRRRR when players used delhi. A very one-sided playstyle. I mean who wouldn’t go for an early 15 villagers worth on gold bu hold 3 sites for minimal investment late in the Dark age?
The dark age technologies ARE faster than before. Wheelbarrow in particular use to take 7min 30 sec pre patch with 0 scholars now it takes 5min with 0 scholars. By comparison current dark and feudal research timings are like having 3 scholars in the old patch.
So bugs aside they did what they said they would: faster earlier techs but extremely slow later techs.
Just keep about 2 villagers on gold and you can afford pumping out a scholar every 45 seconds. And focus on parallel processing vs actual research time reduction. For example make multiple universities at 450 wood each!! Then researching 3 techs at 3 minutes each assuming you have the scholar power is better overall compared to having 1 university researching 3 techs at 90 secs each (you spent 900 additional wood for faster techs rather than 50 plus scholars and training time and gold!)
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Why would you need to research as fast as your enemy though? Is the other civ able to research every imp tech at once? The devs probably kept in mind that your enemy can’t build more buildings to research everything at once since any other civ won’t have the resources for that.
Can’t find better words.
A masterclass in how to demonstrate you’ve never played Delhi in your life.
This civ has been obliterated.
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Lool pre patch I had a post asking for dark age technologies be 2.5 longer feudal be 3 castle be 5 and imp be 10 times!
As it stands, Delhi has basically no advantage over any other civilization. The combination of the lack of eco bonuses and the need for so many extra buildings and units - scholars and their mosques, extra blacksmiths, military, and tech buildings to make the slow researches reasonable - counters out the ‘free’ upgrades. Plus you lose a lot of population space, even more now, which has a pretty big effect in the late game. I don’t personally have a problem with the scholars not taking sacred sites as early, but that also stands as yet another loss of resources and strategic flexibility for Delhi.
The elephant, their only real unique unit, is now easily countered by far cheaper units after the pike and crossbow buff. I basically considered elephants “fair enough” before the patch, but now they’re just too expensive, slow, and vulnerable to be truly worthwhile over siege options. Having weak horsemen sucks for everyone, but I made a lot of them as Delhi because of their production speed and “free” upgrades making them pretty useful in feudal to early castle age. My gold goes straight to scholars and aging up at that point in the game, and Delhi’s archers and spearmen are not great.
One thing making them not great is that brace is bugged for Delhi spearmen. Aside from that, the bugged food generating landmark and bugged keep research speeds are an enormous problem. Plus, dock researches remain extremely difficult to get in a reasonable time on a majority of maps imo.
The only thing keeping Delhi from being absolutely pointless is the MAA and Knight attack bonus, and that’s really not substantial in the grand scheme. I personally liked to play Delhi despite their considerable weaknesses because I liked freeing up some micro from resource management, using scholars to heal, grab relics and convert, focus on late game etc – I played a lot of Lithuanians in AoE2 which had similar aspects.
We’ve gone from being at a slight disadvantage in the META while playing Delhi to playing them being a masochistic and essentially non-viable decision if you’re competitive. Even a very casual player, against bots, will be at a significant disadvantage playing Delhi. It sucks. Please test your game, and fix your game.
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A mosque is 100 wood right? And 3 scholars is 300 gold. That’s cheaper than most techs and you only spend it once to research many things
A scholar costs 150g, or 75g if you produce it from Dome of the Faith.
its not just that, mosques take up prime real estate otherwise taken by military buildings or farms, scholars take pop space and if it wasnt for increasing research times you wouldnt make a ton of them. delhi units are already heavy on pop due to elephants. with other civs if you manage to have a good eco going you can pay for the research and reap the benefits easily. with delhi you have to wait even if you have multiple mosques filled with scholars
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Delhi is bugged anyways , go up and find the guy with screenshots
Those are bad news then , at least we getting some of the bugs fixed , now we will have to wait if they make another balance update in mid winter
Huh sorry , I didn’t saw your comment , here is my response :
Listen buddy Delhi has a bug that in the area of influence keeps that makes them instead of resting research time , it adds research time , making them BAD. Because if it is not in the area of influence it need also a lot of time but much less.
Yes but why? Delhi had a good early game because scholars and sacred sites with the special technology , now they have that technology in feudal , making them play like other civs and also making the civ pretty useless in defending early agresssions because people is trying to do fast feudal.
So yeah , it’s a clear nerf.
See my last comment.
20 characters
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after playing more with the patch i feel like the buff to spears, towers(people seem to have forgotten) and xbows on top of the various civ buffs has toned down french a lot
i think the biggest issue is still their early harass with knights, but if you can mitigate it they arent so over powered, same for any chance of them or english trying to ram rush the slower civs
i know delhi had a few things broken, the castle thing is avoidable, dont build it within influence and the most ive had to wait was 5min(i think), even then those castle techs that have their time extended arent game changing in every single game, i have yet to finish a game where i felt the castle techs made a big impact
since the devs released that info on why they made the changes to horsemen and delhi(stop people from always going for exactly the same opening), it makes more sense and we can kind of see where they are going with it, hopefully they’ll fix the numbers by the next patch
in the meantime abb and china have received some significant buffs compared to where they used to be, so at least there’s more variety in how many civs are being played
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Thank you Relic for deleting the Delhi from the game! Those annoying elephant sounds were getting on my nerves! Job well done!
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The bug here is that scholars are actually increasing the research time of this tech.
I discoverd two major bugs:
- Mentioned by you in this post and here are my informations abut what i discoverd:
- with no scholars in mosques for keep upgrades like: - Village Fortress = 5 minutes
- Slow-Burning Defenses = 3.45 minutes
→ even if the keep it is under the influence of the mosque or not it takes the same time!
- with 7 mosques fulled with scholars for the techs mentioned it takes more than 50 minutes to be done so this is a huge bug!
- If you garisson a scholar inside the siege workshop, you will not be able to see and upgrade the tech “Siege
Works” - which increase the health of siege engines by +20% and their ranged armor by +3 and of course you can not benefit from the scholar boost for the upgrade. But, if you start the tech upgrade and then order the scholer to go inside the siege workshop it will boost the tech upgrade and you’ll get the 50% cooldown.
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