https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-rework-the-delhi-civ-bonus/187090
watch this.
you should produce 55 scholars (55 populations) to reduce the search time of the Tech in age 4 to be the same as the other civ.
10/12/15 scholars to reduce the search time of the Tech in age 1/2/3 to be the same as the other civ.
Buff? really??? The original bonus can let the Delhi garrison 9 scholars to be the same as the other civ. Now, you need to produce more scholars.
Phenomenal! I only need one geological era and a mere 55 lost population to be able to tech normally in a competitive game where I was already miles behind with the weakest army.
Definitely thereâs no bias against Delhi / Muslims (oh btw have you realized titans Ottoman Empire and Persians are not in the game, but English magically is!!..).
Are you sure buddy XD? Needing 55 scholars in imp age doesnât seems like a buff for me lmao
My preferred changes would be:
Fix all of the ridiculous research time and landmark bugs. Fix brace for spearmen.
Make the research time multiplier 3x, 4x, 6x, 8x in each age, or 3.5x, 4.5x, 6x, 9x. Something roughly in that range. Have each scholar lower that by 0.5x. Perhaps the engine will be able to calculate this correctly.
If you canât make Tower of Victory work properly, change it to unique researches instead of vicinity based, or just have it dole out bonuses over time. IE 5-10% movement speed feudal, +1 melee armor/attack in castle, +1 pierce armor/attack in imperial or similar.
Change dock research times to a lower static multiplier. Most maps make it ridiculous to get dock researches due to placement. Theyâre like 7 minutes a pop. If you do this, nerf fishing boat arrows as well.
Change the base Sanctity research time to be lower (preferably), or have it researchable in dark age but not usable until feudal.
Give Delhi a castle or imperial research like bloodlines in AoE2 for an HP increase across all mounted units. This will make their horsemen, knights and elephants more viable. Something like 10%.
My test found that you need more scholars to reduce the research time. You can check the table. If you want to reduce the research time to be the same as the other civ, how many scholars you should garrison in Mosques, how much resources it will cost and how much producing time it will take.
(The landmark is Dome of the Faith)
| Scholar pop | Gold Cost | Gold cost by landmark | Producing time by landmark (min) | Wood cost (Mosques) | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Age1 Tech | 10 | 1500 | 750 | 7.5 | 600 |
| Age2 Tech | 12 | 1800 | 900 | 9 | 600 |
| Age3 Tech | 15 | 2250 | 1125 | 11.25 | 750 |
| Age4 Tech | 55 | 8250 | 4125 | 41.25 | 2850 |
We found not only resources but also population. The scholar will occupy the population! So you cannot only calculate how many resources the Delhi saved. Producing a lot of scholars is stupid.
If relic feel that it is too hard to balance the Delhi bonus, you can rework it.
I have some suggestions. Because I love the Tier design like the Mongol, Rus, and Abbasid. Maybe we can design a Scholar Culture by garrisoning the scholars to unlock the Tier to give some bonuses.
Scholar Culture can reduce the cost of Tech and auto heal unit when out of combat based on the Tier by garrisoning the scholars within the influence of Mosque instead of the original bonuses of free tech and lower research speed.
Dome of the Faith: Unlock the Tier 4 of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function. The original function is too useful. Unlocking the Tier 4 is not useful in early game but great in late game. The Tower of Victory can gain the attack speed of infantry to counter opponent in early and mid game. (But Iâm not sure why this landmark cannot gain the speed of MAA? Itâs a bug or balance?)
Efficient Production: Increases the attack of military units based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function within the influence of Mosques.
Sanctity: Increases the gold generation of relic and sacred site based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function.
All-Seeing Eye: Increases the sight range of military units based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function.
Swiftness: Increases the movement speed of military units based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function.
Zeal: Increases the attack of military units based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function.
Hisar Academy: Generates Food based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function.
Palace of the Sultan: Produces Tower War Elephants and the producing time is based on the Tier of the Scholar Culture instead of the original function.
| Scholarly Culutre | Scholar pop | Gold cost | Wood (Mosques) |
Reduce the cost of Tech | Auto Healing | gold generation of Relic and Sacred Site | Reduce the producing time of military | increase military attack | increase military movement speed | increase military sight |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tier 1 | 1 | 150 | 150 | -10% | 1HP/s | 10% | -10% | 1% | 1% | 10% |
| Tier 2 | 5 | 750 | 300 | -20% | 2HP/s | 20% | -20% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 20% |
| Tier 3 | 10 | 1500 | 600 | -30% | 3HP/s | 50% | -25% | 5% | 5% | 30% |
| Tier 4 | 20 | 3000 | 1050 | -40% | 4HP/s | 100% | -50% | 10% | 10% | 40% |
Top players thought the Delhi is just the B Tier civ in the old patch because they can capture the sacred sites in age 2. But in the new patch, they become the E Tier. In age 2, they donât have MAA, Longbowmen, or early Knight. They donât have defensive landmark to protect them. In age 3, the elephant will be killed by Springald. The Springald can kite the elephant you know? In age 4, elephants are nothing. You can deal with this target by Springald, Bombard, Handcannoneer. They donât have the strong units like the Chinese or Rus. You can watch the Viper video testing the elephants vs other units. Elephants cannot counter a lot of units by the same resources. They are too expensive and less attack efficiency. The Tower War Elephant cannot upgrade by a lot of Tech. Itâs a bug but relic didnât want to fix it?
I suggest another idea. Delhi can build the Stone Wall in age 2 but lower building speed (2x)
Compound of the Defender: Reduces Stone cost of buildings and their emplacements by 25%. Increases the building speed of the Stone Wall. The infantry can build the Keeps.
Um, your suggestion 6 already exists. Itâs called biology at the Madrassa and gives 20% HP to all cavalry.
Yeah, this is a bug - Delhi Mosques not boosting keep research - #9 by gpibambam
Thatâs the thing: You donât need to be as fast as other civs, as other civs canât research everything at once due to resource limitations. Building the same building multiple times also gives you the option to research everything simultaneously.
The thing is that this is called : un-balanced , and they tried to balance the civ making them worse lol
I think this is the only time that I am actually not defending the devs. They sadly messed this one and they can change it!
This is not a thread to hate the work that devs do , I know that there are people working on this game very hard . That is why I try not to insult anyone working on this fantastic game.
Great game with its flaws.
That seems to directly contradict what OP said, but frankly I believe you over them. Definitely a bug, should definitely be fixed, as should the Delhi be improved more.
The time is more important. If you have to wait 5-6 minutes after reaching imp before you realize any actual upgrades to your capabilities, youâre at a major disadvantage. Yes, researching all the techs is useful because it facilitates easy tech swap so long as you have the production buildings. But the reality is you donât actually need probably half the military techs at any given point in time. Being able to get the heavy hitters more quickly is more important than getting a bunch of extras you arenât actually using much if at all anyway.
Itâs not like AoE2 where you get imp and now you can instantly make trebs and can suddenly attack in dramatically different ways than you could before. Thereâs very little you canât already do in castle age. The big advantage of imp is getting key upgrades for your eco and military. Saving resources isnât useful if you canât spend them on things that will win the game anyway.
Thatâs true. Itâs not a unique tech to Delhi though, and itâs nearly the last upgrade you get because you canât even place a Madrasa until imp. Maybe a mounted unit armor tech would be more appropriate.
Delhi just doesnât have any offensive identity/ability outside of elephants, and theyâre pretty underwhelming now. I think it makes sense for Delhi to be specialized in mounted units in general.
I think they just need to buff elephants so theyâre more imposing. If elephants donât make your opponent change what theyâre doing, elephants have no function other than looking cool. Right now the only time elephants really make your opponents change their plan is if theyâre going cavalry, archers, rams and/or mangonels (elephants straight counter cavalry and soak up damage from vanilla archers pretty well). And even there, the speed of cavalry and range of archers still gives them a chance to play around the elephants in many situations. If theyâre going spears, xbows, gunpowder, springalds or bombards (which pretty much everyone does), they just keep on doing that.
Another one, see my last comment, in that one I rectified. The mechanic is completely bugged
About the x15 research time in Imperial. I think they are missing out an important issue, the benefit of each additional scholar is decrecient- doubling the number of scholars does not halve your research time. They should use a multiplier based on scholars - how many scholars do I need to get x1 research time so that the decrecent factor is accounted.
Yeah this is true , as I said in this thread.
If you donât read the entire conversation you maybe you wonât understand what I said , yes in the principal post of my thread say that but that doesnât mean that in the conversation thread we were rectifying our ideas and seeing the real problem .
the mechanic is bugged , including scholars actually adds researche time .
Delhi being nerfed as f excluding the sanctity tech of the dark age and put it in the feudal age.
Sanctity in dark age is as much an issue of charm, uniqueness, charisma, tactical and gameplay diversity, as it is an issue of game balance.
Winter update killed ALL of that. It is huge.
Sanctity should go back to the dark age where it belongs. The actual capturing the SS could wait until feudal just fine. 8-9 minutes is already late.
I saw a better suggestion for how to handle Sanctity from someone on this forum.
Remove the tech. Make 75g scholars a general civ bonus. Give the effect of Sanctity to the Dome of Faith. Buff the Tower of Victory to be a valid alternative.
This lets you have more or less the same timing on sacred site capture, but requires the resource investment of going up to feudal, and gives Delhi a very important choice when leaving Dark Age. It would also mean that the strategy is no longer a universal feature of all Delhi games, and make scouting more important (this is always a good thing).
One would need to make Tower of Victory literally godlike to be a valid alternative to Sanctity effect.