French civ is currently very boring and generic, and their are quite a few ways to rework it into a better civ, one that represents more of its colonies as well as having the main strengths/weaknesses unchanged. It will also give a more unique “French” flavor, and distinguish it from the boring european model that currently exists. I will list each different building/unit/tech and card:
Replace Estate with Sugarcane Plantation. France was probably the greatest importer of sugar into Europe, via French West Indies. How about we reflect this (don’t rant about the insensitivities and politics because I do not care). This building would be better than generic estates and have it’s own upgrades, even if they are purely esthetic differences.
Remove Canada as a revolt option. British nor French ever revolted here.
Remove Napoleonic themed techs, cards and units (Voltigeurs, ‘House Bonaparte’ cards,)
Add North America Trade card.
Add Canadien Skirmishers. They can replace skirmishers.
Add ‘Petite Guerre’ card. This card will give Canadien Skirmishers the stealth ability. http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo11/no4/doc/Page%2048%20Ouellet%20Article%20English.pdf “While the French suffered enormous disadvantages in manpower and resources in the imperial wars, they possessed a clear advantage in the frontier warfare because of their Indian alliances and the adoption of the Indian way of war by colonial officers and militia.”
Ironically, the fact that most of the soldiers were in fact habitant militia men actually aided in the ability to fight using these strategies given that many of these men would have been hunters and would already be accustomed to hunting and stalking in forests.
Add an Umbrella Algonquin civ, or the following tribes as ‘minor’ civ settlements: Abenaki, Algonquin, Montagnais, Outaouais. French would receive different native cards specific from these natives. In the event of Algonquin or other native civ, they would also have many cards to reflect the great relationship they had with the French (this is really another topic)
King’s Musketeer replaces Musketeer line as a unique unit.
Languedoc Regiment card- Canadien Skirmishers receive ‘boosts’ from Musketeers.
Armée Royale Française card to replace the ‘House of Bonaparte’ cards (same effects).
Add First French Republic as a revolution option to replace Canada. Possible card could be a ‘Voltigeur’ upgrade, which converts Canadien Militia unit into Voltigeurs (they also lose stealth). You would also receive a Napoleon Hero, and he will act like Japanese Daimyos - receiving card shipments, boosting morale and training soldiers.
Replace Capitol with Palace of Versailles.
Replace Napoleon personality with Louis XIV
Add Louis XIV as an Industrial Age Politician (he is only selectable because he decided to fulfil all duties of a Chief minister, and had no chief minister.)
Absolute Monarchy, new card, unlocked when you Age to Industrial Age through Louis (extra deck)- Maybe the explorer becomes a powerful ‘King’. Could train Swiss Guard and King’s Musketeer, and gives bonuses to both.
Aging by Louis XIV means your next ‘Age’ is achieved by hereditary right, and therefore, Louis XV. One pathway will be military focused, and you will gain a new building that grants military improvements of sorts, École Militaire. The other pathway will be Economy/building focused, representing Louis XV’s founding of an engineer school. New building: engineer school, XP trickle. New unique unit: Engineers. Engineers will build buildings faster and cheaper than settlers, but settlers take longer if you go this route. Engineers can build forts. Max limit: 5 or so
TEAM Choiseul Reforms card: increases build limit of all warships. Unlocked after Advancing with Louis XV military option.
TEAM French Engineers card: sends one/two engineers to each team member. They don’t suffer the settler slow building. Unlocked when choosing the engineer pathway.
This is all I have thought of so far. Any suggestions/support and constructive criticism is encouraged. If you are an ultra conservative who doesn’t want a thing changed, click this button and then leave this thread:
I am 100% on board. France is a boring civ and the OG “Japan” - It was designed to be safe, generic, and strong in every strategy it aimed for. It needs some actual weaknesses besides “hard rush” because the civ’s foundation makes it one of both the strongest and most forgiving civs in the game to play.
I like how France and Japan are compared when both of them are polar opposites in terms of playstyle, strats and units power scale.
France is a semiFF civ which needs to go out in the map and has fairly balanced matchups, Japan is a boom and turtle civ, stays at base and has some unbalanced autowin/auto lose matchups.
In terms of constructive feedback: i think france is kinda boring currently but I feel like some civ has to be a sorta “baseline” civ for beginners. I’m not sure exactly what things need to be reworked, although I do like the idea of a “Kings Musketeer” as a second unique military unit. There’s probably some room for some new hc cards that open up new builds but its quite difficult to imagine something ever replacing “3 CDB” which is of course, a ridiculously good age 1 card.
Good ideas!
I wish I could unclick the poll Oh wait you can, forgot.
Few points are very debatable. Civs are not standalone, they must fit into the broader mainframe that why some things are the way they are.
Also current version of 3DE is packed with content. Devs should be wise and careful with further introduction of more units, more versions of the same units etc; to no lead to even more confusion for newcomers.
But for buildings I’m always 100% for the introduction of unique ones, and special versions replacing generic base types.
But they have to go out on the map to do so, which opens them up to raids. Japan is happy behind walls for 20 minutes. And France boom doesn’t deviate much from average civ’s boom.
But on the topic of the thread, I have enjoyed watching so many french matches over the years, I would hate to see them changed up and be a new civ.
The issue is that both civs are extremely forgiving and just about every unit archetype both have is “top of the line” for their class - I don’t necessarily mean every unit, but rather that every archetypical unit they have is top of the line.
France has Gendarmes, Volts, and stronger artillery than normal. This gives them an extremely well-rounded military.
Japan has Yabusame, Morutaru, Ashi, Daimyo, and Yumi. This is more units than France, but equally versatile.
For both civs, their military is too forgiving and too generic. They can reasonably send their best units into the unknown and expect to do well or win without needing to worry heavily about the counter system.
Both civs have safe economies as well. CDB and Shrines make the early game of both fairly safe, and this strong baseline makes both forgiving into a misplayed strategy - if you mess up, it’s not the end of the world. You have an inherently strong foundation to return to.
That is the problem - Strategies like “semiFF” or “boom and turtle” is 100% down to numbers in any given patch, but the relative generic military and safe economy of both means that both civs are always relevant, and almost always towards the top of their class.
Don’t have time now, I’ll try to check the thread later, but even the second point- removing revolt options to make civs more accurate is fine, but at the same time we should propose replacements. Because at that point it’s just removal of content and ‘upgrade’ (revolution) paths from a, like it or not, core mechanic.
These games are far from being historical simulators, some concessions have to be made.
We’re not playing as France. We’re playing as French colony in a New World (not the theme has been dropped, well even back when Asian Dynasties were released) and when searching for a candidate for revolution Canada is prolly the best thing to fill in. What else, Mexico? Some fictional regional republics?
Things like that shouldn’t be scrutinized too much.
There’s a limited number of political entities and cultures any given country that interacted in any meaningful way in that period and in that context, you have to make the best of it and pick things that make sense within these groups.
I’d add small balance change- bring back card that makes Cuirassier drop pop to 2 from 3. At a cost of increased production time and a bit more resources.
(or maybe it wasn’t a card, just a balance change, can’t remember)
Well the only thing I agree with is replacing the AI leader for Louis XIV and adding a more Royal France theme (through some cards added or renamed) than we have with Revolutionary France (French Republic and Empire).
I guess France is generic by design, like a baseline civ. I don’t see Japan as generic. Only its musk and mortars are generic, bows are skirm lite, goons is specialised at being antiartillery, hand cav is tanky specialised anti-infantry, hand infantry is a specialised dopp, artillery is specialised culv falc hybrid.
That’s not quite what I mean by “generic”. What I mean is that Japan’s military has a rather strong counter for every class in the game - Yumi for heavy inf and light cav, Ashigaru for heavy cavalry, Yabusame for artillery and heavy cav, flaming arrow for artillery, and the Morutaru is an extremely strong mortar.
Most civs have glaring weaknesses or weak counters somewhere in their military. Japan does not. Combine this inherent versatility with a strong and safe economy and Japan ends up too well-rounded, lacking any real weaknesses that aren’t Player-side rather than civ-side.
You want to “improve” France by removing a man who’s a French icon and arguably the most influential person of the 19th century? What are you smoking?
You’d also have to remove the Gribeauval System card and Gendarmes to remove Napoleonic references. What is even left of France at that point?
If you just want France to be colonial, removing Napoleon is wrong. He wanted to recapture the colonies and even invaded Haiti.
I think we could use a few more cards with colonial references such as one for the Filles du Roi, but France doesn’t need huge changes.
If you want to make France more dynamic, adding in a French revolution option would probably be the best way to go. It could make France more like the Metropole and replace colonial things like Courriers with their home country equivalent like Sans-Culottes.
(don’t rant about the insensitivities and politics because I do not care). This building would be better than generic estates and have it’s own upgrades, even if they are purely esthetic differences.
