This is an extensive list of every adjustment made to the Aztec civilization in AOE III DE since day 1. It may be incomplete, I ask that if you find something missing or debate if something is a buff or nerf, let everyone know in the comments.
Contrary to what I (and I’m convinced many) believed, the Aztecs have received more buffs than nerfs. The nerfs have been strong, the buffs not so much, but they are there.
Still, the Aztecs are unplayably weak in Treaty. I second the idea that they must be weak, (that is, they fell in 1521), but not THAT weak.
Among the fixes that I propose for the Aztecs are:
Trading Post trickle 1 food, 1 wood, 1 gold /second for each Trading Post, representing either tribute or trade, in which the Aztecs were good.
Otontin Slinger and Arrow Knight: ROF Promotions:
Bronze: 11.11% faster (ROF x0.90)
Silver: 25% faster (ROF x0.80)
Gold: 42.86% faster (ROF x0.70)
Jaguar Prowler Knight: (HP and Damage Promotions, implemented here, but also in PUP oficially)
Bronze: +15%
Silver: +25%
Gold: +45%
AbstractHeavyInfantry tag removed.
Attack bonus against:
Cavalry: 1.70x
Shock melee infantry: 1.20x
Infantry: 2.40x
Speed unchanged: 4.75
I want give them "Charro Shock Infantry" vibes
Those changes have been already implemented in Mods Single - Age of Empires this mod. Please, try them, tell me if you like this new JPK and ROF promotioned Slingers and Arrows.
The issue is that nerfs are bigger than buffs in effect. It become worse when comparing with other civs:
7 new cards. 0 usefull on treaty or lategame.
Everyone get faster shipments (included russian crates, who have 2 factories too), aztec crates come slower in industrial age while keep the same in imperial than before.
I dont see it in the list but huts HP age up was nerfed.
Everyone get more HP with extensive fortifications (age II card). Aztec fortifications dont (at least it coukd boost walls). But hey, devs were against HP increasment as they nerfed town dance (then we add costless Flags, Mountain monasteries, spammable maya castles…)
in that image the added ability to WC is marked as buff haaha, he was useless for an entire patch, becoming aztec discovery age the worst ingame. (There wasnt eagle scout)
We were like 3 months without walls (a bug but still). Also another one paying all 3 resources after sending aztec mining.
Natives get worse mortars than europeans while they cost more population and are limited to 3 buildings.
6 pop mortars and AKs do more damage vs walls, perfect. But every mortar do…specially Japan, Portugal and europeans didnt need it.
Dont start with inca vs aztec situation on launch. As they were classified as better aztecs in every field.
The negative multiplier on the ERK against all infantry should be changed to a negative multiplier against light infantry (Skirmishers).
Regarding the JPK, 16 x 1.7 = 27.2 against cavalry. That’s before any of the promotions. While that isn’t extremely strong, I think allowing the JPK to have bonuses against all infantry and cavalry is too much. Losing the HI tag makes it basically a melee skirm, meaning it breaks the counter system if it counters heavy cav.
When comparing to the new PUP Chinaco, the Chinaco only has bonuses against Heavy Cav and Skirmishers. That’s a lot less broad than a bonus against all infantry and cavalry.
I would say up the bonus against Infantry to 3x and remove the bonuses against cavalry. That would still allow it to do its full base damage to cavalry, but it would do a better job against infantry, which I think is more important to Aztec
I think the JPK should stop being heavy infantry and even the JPK could have a less than 1 bonus against heavy cavalry to prevent them from being OP (JPK could be supported by pumas or ERKs to counter heavy cavalry). I wouldn’t give them a bonus against light infantry so coyotes would be used to counter skirmishers. Still, the Aztecs may need a unit that can defeat light infantry at a distance.
JPKs should avoid becoming shock infantry, as if they become shock infantry the JPKs will be slaughtered by samurai, dopplesoldners and similar units. It is imperative that the JPK slaughter the heavy infantry.
The eagle scouts are somewhat forgotten. It would be interesting if they have something more useful.
Well, the bonus make them a strong attack, weak resistance unit, in accord with my idea. We may reduce even more their HP for balancing. They are very vulnerable to all distance damage: heavy infantry, light infantry, light cavalry, buildings.
I want they be a unique unit, a generalist unit like zouave. But, instead focus ling them into resistance, focus them into attack.
Still, they have no bonus against artillery, and with that weakness, they won’t even touch the artillery except they don’t attack
This unit also counters all of these units. We just need found the balance of HP. Try the mod, please, and provide feedback, if you want.
Losing the Heavy Infantry tag means they are less vulnerable to skirmishers and artillery, but not immune, like cavalry.
The problem with a high attack, low hp melee unit is it dies before connecting. Uhlans work because of cav speed and the extra ranged armor… the JPK modifications your suggesting would either kill everything except artillery (which is bad for balance, some civs don’t even have artillery), or if you lower it’s hitpoints it loses to everything at range.
Zouavas also aren’t a default unit (meaning they’re hard to mass). It’s risky to make generalist units that can be massed because they break the counter system.
Losing the HI tag does nothing to reduce damage against Artillery.
I think what Aztec needs is a strong anti-infantry unit. It needs to have some ranged armor because it needs to survive to reach musk/skirm lines, and needs to lose to either ranged cav or heavy cav and artillery.
If JPK kill infantry they will pair well with ERKs and AKs, allowing for a comp that synergies well
Ok. What if we don’t change anything. Just quit them the HI tag (skirmisher eats JPK) and give them bonus against infantry/light infantry?
Another solution is give Otontins bonus against light infantry, maybe with a card, maybe with a upgrade. Maybe with cost increment. Maybe with a valor promotion, i don’t know. But Aztecs should feel unique, and give them a strong ranged skirmisher… feels wrong
I will say, if you’re looking for uniqueness, making JPK a melee skirm that counters all infantry instead of HI and Ranged cav would be very unique.
It would also make JPK+ERK a strong combo. Personally I’d love to see JPK and ERKs compliment each other because they were the original Aztec units before they were a civ
From a game balance perspective JPK either would need to be countered by Artillery/Heavy Cav (if they were made a skirm) or be hand shock infantry that is countered by ranged cav and is both counted by, but also counters HI (like lancers do)
It could be interesting to add a 1.2 or 1.1x against Skirmishers to Slingers. Maybe it could be added the Slinger support card or Slinger combat in age 4. Though, I’d like to see the JPK reworked first and only buff the Slinger if necessary
I also still think the ERK’s negative multiplier against Infantry should be changed to a negative multiplier against Skirmishers
For balance reasons they would need to have no bonuses against heavy cavalry (maybe a 0.75x?). Heavy cav would become a counter to JPK, forcing you to pair them with ERK, Puma or Skull knights. Otherwise it would counter everything in melee
Stats sound good. You’ll want to remove the bonus against Hand Shock Infantry as that is basically a tag for Inca and Aztec melee cav. Maybe give it a 10-15%rr instead of melee armor since it’s a skirm now.
After thinking about it, I think the only two changes I’d make to Aztec right now are the changes to the JPK (making it a melee skirm good against all Infantry) and changing the ERK’s penalty against all infantry into a penalty against Light Ranged Infantry (Skirmishers), a half revert.
The JPK changes are pretty massive and with them, they will pair really really well with ERKs. I think it would be good to know how these two changes effect the balance when pro players and the community as a whole get their hands on them. After that other changes can more safely be considered
