X doubt
You are literally making shit up, refusing to acknowledge historical artworks and have yet to provide valid counterexamples although you’re being asked to do so multiple times already.
What you care about is preferental treatment, not equal treatment because if you tried to be objective you’d acknowledge that american natives are represented verywell. There’s a solid dozen tribes, two playable civs only for north america, two for south america, compared to what, a tengri shrine that trains dogs (!) and tatars? And you dont see your own hypocrisy?
Yes, my sources are a bit vague, but I’m not gonna get more accurate - I’m not citing my grandmother and her sisters to you. My uncle’s right to privacy is something he values. He’s made these types warclubs before, and I rather look forward to the day he teaches me how to make them because they’re damn amazing.
Those aren’t historical artworks, those are photographs and contemporary replicas.
The only artwork that might be historical is the red depiction on the horse. It shows tepees, cattle, rifles and pine trees. All in the game,. None of the extensive details you critiqued Paxson for missing. Even less detail than currently present in the game. See the hypocrisy?
It’s an example of the Crow Owner’s society, of which I have wanted to include as one of the military units of the Lakota. The Stronghearts are already in the game - Tokala Soldiers are a branch of the Stronghearts, unique to the Oglala.
That… that is literally Red Cloud wearing his warbonnet that marks his status as a chief, I’m not sure what else you want there.
Of the last three, only one is a replica - the ceremonial one. The stone warclub is a modern depiction made by Native craftsmen - is that a “replica” if it’s made by the same people, using the same techniques?
The horn warclub is dated to the 1890’s, from the northern prairie. It was from a collection in Billings, Montana.
Thank you for the clarification. Have you read the work of Paul Kirchhoff? I haven’t but I known that he was the German anthropologist who coined the term Mesoamerica in the 1940’s. So I hope you can follow in his footsteps in making your proposed term Tortuamerica accepted by academia someday. Other terms used in Mexican academia are Aridoamerica and Oasisamerica but those names I believe aren’t used much outside of Mexico. In fact Oasisamerica is the American Southwest and I think the term used for its people is the Puebloans (not sure if it is an umbrella term).
As for this thread I would really like to see a civ based on the Guaraní of the Jesuit reductions in Paraguay as depicted in the movie The Mission and described in this thread:
But being more realistic I think adding a whole new civ is a lot of work and probably the most feasible option is to rework current civs and revolutions or even add new revolutions. So I´m OK with anything the devs do to make the game more fun. I sincerely hope you can still enjoy this game even if we don´t get what we want (Lakota rework for you and Guaraní-Jesuits and Habsburg Austrians for me)
I already wrote you like five times: i want a painting from a native tribe that surpasses the quality and attention to detail of the american artist from 1920 i posted earlier. Why? Because his depiction is similar to our game, i think it’s well done yet you deem the entire depiction as pure phantasy. As it currently stands out to me, the americans gave more attention to native culture than their own tribesmen.
So lacrosse played today, using essentially the same rules and regulations and by the same people as 300 years ago… they’re playing a replica of the game they used to play?
Is it a replica if the same techniques have been used and were never stopped being used in the interim, by the same people? I really don’t think so. Otherwise, we’d have to consider all sorts of ongoing technologies “replicas”.
So you don’t want history, you want pure fantasy to justify why you want fantasy. You don’t care about history, you want racist stereotypes to play with. You don’t want to see the actual culture of these people in the game, you want to see a glorified “noble savage” in the game.
You don’t care about history in the slightest, you want a specific type of glorified history that is false, through-and-through.
Why even care about “political correctness” in the first place if you don’t want correctness in the first place?
Wrong, but nice strawman. I want a historical artwork that’s part of the self-determination of lakota people, preferably from a time close to our game timeframe. And i wrote you why, if you dismiss something as fiction, you can’t replace it with your own fiction and claim intellectual honestly.
This is Buffalo Calf Road Woman. Five American troops shot at her while she road out to save her brother. I think it’s portrayed fairly well.
Modern day has taken ledger art a lot further, because we have the time and resources to do these things. Pictured is a ledger drawing of a Lakota man in regalia on horseback.
Here’s a more modern take on Buffalo Calf Road Woman.
So, basically, what you’re asking is that I supply a type of art that wasn’t done during this time period of figures that weren’t often the subject of paintings.
That, dear piece of sh*t, is called “sealioning”. You are fully aware you are wrong, so you keep moving the goalposts. I provided photographs of these people and examples of the weapons, but no, you must have art of them instead, because somehow that’s more… accurate?
We don’t even have that from Asia in this time period, yet you don’t seem to have a problem there.
Wrong. It’s hilariously obvious you don’t care about native representation in the slightest.
Well, maybe be more humble then next time, when others did? Clearly your ancestors didn’t care about accurate depictions, contrary to americans from that time. Thus artistic freedom from the devs is excusable, if no primary sources were present.
Scetches
Those look very familiar to what we have ingame.
you must have art of them instead, because somehow that’s more… accurate?
Yes, that’s closer to self-determination than a photograph image. That’s how they wished to be remembered, which is way more relevant and truthful then making up an alternative reality.
Here’s a painting from the 19th century about sibirian natives, painted by someone born in siberia. The left side is represented by (at best) two units currently in the game, the right isn’t at all.
Northern America is a stupid name because it’s very similar to North America.
The term Tortuamerica is actually pretty good as in referring to the cultures of the place and not the modern countries of USA and Canada which you could call Anglo America (even though that theoretically includes countries like Belize that are south of Mexico) but that’s basically ignoring the people that lived their first.
The same with Latin America. The people that originally lived there didn’t speak a Romanesque language.
Also there are basically no cultural connections between Aztecs and Incas.
There is a stronger cultural connection between Iceland and Ethiopia.
South America and Latin America are to different, separate concepts: one is just South America the continent, Latin America includes Mexico, Central American and Caribbean nations.
I never wrote that. Any art is sufficient, as long as it’s made by the people at question. If the people didn’t define themselves, they shouldn’t complain if others depicted or defined them (poorly) instead.
“Where are the Egyptians with chariots where all charioteers wear pharaoh’s headdress, and priests with jackal masks, and epsilon axes, and half naked African bois carrying a zulu shield, and Imhotep? That’s such a widespread and well established cultrual image! Everyone thinks ancient Egyptians always looked like that! Why do they now have breastplates and linen armour? I don’t care if they really were like that in this period. This is a game not a history simulator!”
