@JakariaAmin said:
I am shocked to see 17% voted for AOE4 “RTS with “today’s” design philosophy i.e. moba type objectives, multiplayer-centric, competitive, shallow, fast paced, dlc and expansion riddled game”.
These people are not real AOE franchise fan, probably aged below 19 today, new Gamers without any clue what AOE used to mean to Gamers back in 2000s.
That’s quite a strawman you’ve built over there. The poll you are discussing is, “Game preference” with two options, (1) Competitive or (2) Ensemble’s inspired RTS.
A competitive game is not necessarily one with any of those characteristics you described. AoE2 is competitive. AoM is competitive. AoEO is competitive.
AoE4 must be both things. It must be inspired and derivative of the earlier games in this series. It must also be competitive. And it must be much more. It must be fun to watch. It must be deep. It must be something we can play for both hours and hours and years and years.
I didnt vote for either because the question makes a false dichotomy and I prefer some kind of third option that is a combination of both.
I would hesitate before drawing lines in the sand and pronounce that some segment of the fanbase that happens to disagree with your interpretation of a single word are not real fans of the franchise (or, for that matter, true scotsmen). AoE is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. That’s where its beauty lies. Some people play multiplayer exclusively. Some don’t. Some people love the fast paced nature of many of the earlier titles. Some don’t. Some players love watching new content unfold before our eyes after launch. I gather from your post that some don’t.
@“Andy P” , I believe @JakariaAmin got what I meant with Ensemble inspired and “today’s” rts terms. An Ensemble inspired rts is exactly what you said, and many of us know about “AoE is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. That’s where its beauty lies. Some people play multiplayer exclusively. Some don’t. Some people love the fast paced nature of many of the earlier titles. Some don’t. Some players love watching new content unfold before our eyes after launch.” Meaning, ensemble studios never built their games around one arc. That arc being either single player or multiplayer/competitive focused. They made their games around fun factor. That’s why their games are loved by everyone. No one gets left behind. Their game remain competitive (in old days term) without changing the single player portions game of campaign objectives, or skirmish.
However, the competitive in “today’s” terminology is different. It is “moba type objectives, multiplayer-centric, competitive[Edit, wannabe blizzard title], shallow, fast paced, dlc and expansion [Edit: now it is lootbox, micro transaction] riddled game”. Please tell me if i am wrong. And give me an example of any successful modern rts that didn’t meet these criteria (don’t pick 0 A.D., or grey goo). Relic used to make good rts but they don’t anymore, small number of people would like their newer titles but majority don’t. I can go on and on also how much different an AOE title is in game design in comparison do every other game they have built. I think you know that already.
But again, having a competeive game in “toda’s” market is just moba type objectives, multiplayer-centric, competitive[edit, wannabe blizzard title], shallow, fast paced, dlc and expansion [edit lootbox, micro transaction] riddled game". And i hope relic don’t take this route. They should stay conservative when making AOE title, and if they succeed with IV then they can experiment when they get grasp of that an AOE is.
Also, add an option to edit so i can go back and edit what i meant with “today’s” competitive game and “Ensemble inspired [competitive]” game.I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of what i am saying and what some of you imagining.
So I guess you really are asking a bunch of aoe players whether we want aoe4 to be either an aoe game or something that is not an aoe game? Weird question.
@“Andy P” said:
So I guess you really are asking a bunch of aoe players whether we want aoe4 to be either an aoe game or something that is not an aoe game? Weird question.
In the most basic term yes. But, clearly the question is AOE IV with an Ensemble essence VS an AOE IV with today’s game philosophy i.e. mono centric game with focus on popularity, than likability. To be honest I am okay with people with hairstyle not playing next game on twitch, and frankly I don’t give a flying turd about whether game is ‘competitive’ enough for today’s gamers or not, as long as the I see that yes, if ensemble were to make their next game, THIS is the route they would choose. I don’t want flavor of Relic in the game. And I can guarantee and prove you that esport scene is not a lifeline for any game, it is a poison which makes publishers greedy and gamers unsatisfied with an half baked game. All I ask is JUST GIVE ME A MY CHILDHOOD MAN. I know it is weird but I wanted to see if people would accept a change in next AOE. So far, I am glad people want a game they know from their teenage/childhood years.
It seems to me that majority of non-English speakers caught that right away. Becasue I am too using a google/ bing translate and so are they. But even after saying same thing over and over, some of the members here are confused and ready to jump on the guns. But hey if this is the way to have a proper discussion then be it.
@PCS70 about static maps… There is bad news for you and there is good news for you.
The bad news is that AOE relies on randomly generated maps, it is like a trademark for the series, one of the main reasons people stick to AOE and you can bet Relic knows that. Yes, it can make for unfair games at times and can not achieve the competitive nature of SC2 or MOBAs, but it doesn’t want to, we don’t want that. AOE is AOE like you said as well, and the competitive nature of AOE implies more creativity and adaptability to new situations, where reading a never seen before map layout is very important and AOE defining. Scouting is way more important than any other strategy game. This is why not even mirrored randomly generated maps aren’t a good idea, because by seeing a stack of resources to the west of your base, you could immediately tell the opponent has the exact same thing in his spot, since the layout would be the same. I’m 99% sure maps are going to keep using a RMG, it’s the totally expected way to go.
The good news is that there will most likely be mods for that, custom maps with a static layout, like we already have, MOBA scenarios included. So you will be able to have “both cookies”.
@IamDalv
No bad news at all. Also I never said I want it to be that competitive like SC or MOBA RPG ARTS games, because they rely on APM too much in-game. That’s not applicable to classic AOE style of gameplay at all, although AOE also contains a lot of micro-transactions by nature. If I want that, I would play those other games much more which is not the case. You have an excellent reason for not using static mirrored maps, but as far as there are players who would like to have this in AOE it should not be an impossible option to my opinion. People will play what they like anyway. Also it still can be random and equally spread together to prevent what you are talking about and through scouting you will find you opponents base and resources anyway.
I think sometimes these discussions go off the rails because two reasonable people don’t realize they are talking past each other. Like one guy comes and describes some wild new feature he wants to have the ability to use in his own customized matches and someone else thinks he’s suggesting that this proposed wild feature be implemented in every match and affect the official rankings and ladder.
@PCS70 said: @NormChanger
No and I also didn’t say that, but I did say that a ‘multiplayer online battle arena’ does make something a MOBA and not MMO, RPG, RTS and ARTS characteristics.
Respectfully, what do you not understand about the differences between MOBA, MMO and RPG?
So MOBA is not strictly tied to a MMO RPG ARTS game, like you guys seem to think over here. That’s all I wanted to make clear to you guys, but you still don’t seem to understand and get that very important point.
Someone let me know when we are done with video game genre alphabet soup. Lots of these abbreviations are new to me, and I got lost a few pages ago. I just can’t bring myself to get current.
the poll is kind of pointless because it is assuming that competitive = shallow which cant be further from the truth. just look at sc2 or even age of empires online, which admittedly wasnt super competitive but at least way more competitive than other age installments while maintaining the same depth.
@Carnage said:
the poll is kind of pointless because it is assuming that competitive = shallow which cant be further from the truth. just look at sc2 or even age of empires online, which admittedly wasnt super competitive but at least way more competitive than other age installments while maintaining the same depth.
Here we go another one! SC 2 ≠AOE. If the poll is pointless why take part in it? Did you read our earlier comments? Sorry to say but you are seriously noodle. Please lock this thread, i am keep getting notifications.
@Carnage said:
the poll is kind of pointless because it is assuming that competitive = shallow which cant be further from the truth. just look at sc2 or even age of empires online, which admittedly wasnt super competitive but at least way more competitive than other age installments while maintaining the same depth.
I wouldn’t mention a Blizzard game, tis a trigger to some children on these forums.
