Germany general post

So simply rework a bit current German civ and add options + cards referring to Danubian regions? In the end, no split, no “prussians” no “austrians” or something.
Renaming Germans to Austrians even with these few changes would not make sense.

It makes sense. Take a look at some suggestions for what these civs could look like.

Germans (renamed into Austrians civ)

Home City

  • Capital - Vienna
  • Personality - Franz Joseph von Habsburg

Relocations

  1. War Wagon replaced by Dragoon. War Wagon moved to Bohemian revolution.
  2. Skirmisher replaced by Line Infantry. This unit would be renamed into Grenzer.
  3. A lot of Home City cards would be moved to Prussians civ. Some would change their name. Many new Home City cards would be added for Austrians civ.
  4. Royal Guards will be: Line Infantry (k.u.k. Musketiere) and Uhlan (k.u.k. Ulanen)

Added

  1. Austrian Explorer can train Rottweiler (dog).
  2. Mercenary Camp would become a unique entity without the Home City card. It would no longer replace the Tavern. Limit 3. It would have a pool of the following units for training (only one infantry and one cavalry at a time): Landsknecht, Jaeger, Black Rider, Pandour, Hajduk, Magyar Hussar, Crabat, Roșior Dragoon, Bosniak or Mounted Infantry
  3. Added Revolution Options: Croatia, Bohemia, March Revolution

Brand new things:

  • BRAND NEW ARCHITECTURE SET - CENTRAL EUROPEAN (SHARED WITH PRUSSIANS CIV)

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Prussians

Home City

  • Capital - Berlin (present now at Germans civ)
  • Personality - Frederick the Great (present now at Germans civ)

Units

Barracks

  • Pikeman
  • Crossbowmen (Landwehr replace this unit)
  • Musketeer (Royal Guard)

Examples of units that are available when selecting a specific Deutsche Staaten during Age Up:

  • Hesse: Jaeger
  • Bavaria: Mountain Trooper
  • Hannover: Black Brunswicker
  • Saxony: Trabant
  • Silesia: Silesian Schuetzen - Elite rifle-armed troops. They shoot from a long distance and deal massive damage at the cost of a very low rate of fire and training limit (only 10 such units at the same time).

Stable

  • Totenkopf Hussar (Royal Guard)
  • Dragoon
  • Uhlan

Examples of units that are available when selecting a specific Deutsche Staaten during Age Up:

  • Bavaria: Chevauleger
  • Saxony: Saxon Cuirassier

Artillery Foundry

  • Culverin
  • Falconet
  • Mortar
  • Potsdam Giant - would be given the ability to throw grenades at buildings

Examples of units that are available when selecting a specific Deutsche Staaten during Age Up:

  • Rhineland: Howitzer - large ranged artillery; Krupp Gun; Ballonabwehrkanone (all of these units would be replacements for the standard units from the Artillery Foundry)

Church

  • Teutonic Knight - Dismounted cavalry unit. As cavalry, he would resemble the Crusader Knight from AoE 2, and as infantry, he would resemble the iconic Teutonic Knight.

Unique Features

  1. Offizier is a Prussian civ hero. It has a Big Button “Prussian Discipline”. This ability increases the rate of fire and durability of ranged infantry units. He can build Forts
  2. Unique Age up mechanic: Deutsche Staaten (modeled on unique Age Up mechanics for African civs - Alliance. Choosing one of the state affects Units, Mechanics and Home City Cards for Prussians civ). This mechanic of Age Up would represent the path to unification of Germany by Prussia. The first states would thus be Prussian provinces (such as Brandenburg, Silesia and Pomerania), while the later ones would be German states (such as Bavaria, Saxony and Westphalia). Choosing each of the states can bring you a unique unit, a unique building, resources or a unique technology to the Reichstag (Prussians civ unique Capitol). In the Imperial Age, the flag of the Prussians civ changes - this symbolizes the unification of Germany.
  3. Reichstag is unique building for Prussians civ. This building would be a combination of Capitol and State Capitol features. Age Up’s unique items would be Selecting a state during Age Up would affect the flagpoles that fly by the Reichstag.


Reichstag

Unique buildings for some states during Age Up:

  1. They have a new unique building Grube (This Building is being built on a mine. Increases the mine’s capacity by 50%) In this building, you can train Miners (a unit present in the campaign, but with its own model based on the traditional mining uniform), who obtain coins from mines and from Grube more efficiently. Following the example of Mountain Monastery (a unique Ethiopians civ building), it would generate Coins or XP. This building would have improvements such as: increasing the Coin abundance in Grube and increasing the number of trainable Miners. This building would contain a distinctive Headframe - available exclusively for Silesia state during Age Up. 4 limit.
  2. They can build a Kölner Dom (remodeled Italian Basilica. The building model would be based on the Kölner Dom, which is in Germans Home City - by the way, it should then be replaced with a Berlin church, e.g. Berlin Cathedral or Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church) - available exclusively for Cologne or Rhineland (Ruhr) / Westphalian State during Age Up. In this building you can train: Priests, Spies, Teutonic Knights and Inquisitors. 1 limit.
  3. Krupp Factory (Artillery Foundry with investment mechanic for unlock Unique Technologies and Units). Available with select a Rhineland (Ruhr) / Westphalian State during Age Up. Trains units faster. In this building you can train and unlock: Ballonabwehrkanone (cannon to eliminate Balloons), Brandtaucher (pioneer submarine. Available for training at Dock) and Krupp Gun (powerful steel cannon). 1 limit.

Royal Guards:

  • Musketeer - Prussian Needle Gunner
  • Totenkopf Hussar - Prussian Life Hussars

Revolutions:

  1. Livonia
  2. March Revolution
  3. USA
  4. Argentina
  5. Gran Colombia
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This is disappointing and proves once again that splitting Germany for Prussia should never be a thing. I’m not going to comment on every aspects, but first, the suggested Austrians civ doesn’t have anything Danubian, Hungarian and around except for a few mercenaries, 1 rev and a Grenzer. Second, about the Prussian civ, it’s horrible. Unique age-up mechanic?? It’s one another state age-up ala African/USA. Please, no! You suggest Teutonic Knights for Prussia, but the Prussia you suggest is mostly post 1700, when the order was not a thing for almost 2 centuries! Prussia was not even independent before 1657. Then it became the german thing you propose. Offizer as a hero, oh yes another general, please, no! Build a Berlin Church?? Doesn’t make sense, we play a new small settlement in a new location. Bavaria was never part of Prussia as far as I know, and even, allied.

People should seriously revise carefully on what is the true essence of the game. Suggesting buildings like that, out-of-timeframe civs (or civs that ignore the 16th and 17th centuries, or when not, are inconstitant with their initial idea eg. the above ‘Prussians’), or even suggesting a removal of the colonial architecture… This is the whole point of the game ; you play a bunch of people, supported by and working under a metropolis, who are building on-the-job a new settlement to support skirmish, meaning a short military campaign. That’s why stuff like Basilicas and Wonders is a big mistake made by dev who didn’t understand the fundamental principle of the game, but the so-called colonial (it’s not even colonial, it’s “on-the-job”) architecture shouldn’t be removed, etc. If you want to remove these aspects that constitute the main essence of the game, then Explorers, Settler Wagons, Coureur des Bois, etc should get replaced by villagers, officers, etc. Then it’s not AoE3 anymore.

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Civs are an amalgam of iconic elements from different ages. The Teutonic Order is as much a valid part of Prussia as the nation of Frederick the Great is.

The British have Longbowmen as a unique unit despite Great Britain not existing before 1707. How is that any different from Prussia having Teutonic Knights?

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I start to wonder if you have ever played the game at all or have any basic knowledge of history beyond what you just googled.

I think the fundamental principal of the game is European civs (limited to British, French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, Russians, Germans and of course Ottomans for whatever reason they are included but they don’t violate any essence of the game for sure) building colonies in America.

So every expansion since TWC is a huge mistake.

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It shifted from “colonization” to “founding a new settlement”, first in America, then in Asia, then in Africa, then in the rest of the world, including Europe. Have you noticed that Minor Civs in European maps, are the “Native” Houses of the played area? We are foreigners. French playing on France and allying with the Bourbons. Yes, we are French foreigners who ally with “France”, founding a new settlement in the region of France. We don’t play France. We are not France. We don’t play “the Bourbons”. Same as we would not play “Prussia” and playing “Prussians” doesn’t make any sense since they are either Germans, Poles or that old prussian baltic people which had faded out.

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Glad to see that the “fundamental principle” of the game is defined 15 years after its release, and after the inclusion of wonders and basilica.

Good thing is that we don’t have heartbroken “colonialism!!!” purists anymore after KoTM. So the purists’ “principle” does shift all the time as the game develops, however reluctantly. It’s a good sign no?

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We would not play British either because they are either English, Scottish, or that old Britannic Celtic people which had faded out.

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And these people are already covered by the German and the upcoming Poles civs.

We play British because the civ represents these people, and no one is asking for a British split, because it doesn’t make sense, same as a German split.

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I believe every Prussian proposal including all you have already seen also includes separating the Prussian part out of the existing Germans and renaming the existing Germans.

The same thing happened to AoE2 Indians. Of course the workload is smaller there, but the basic idea is the same. It does not violate anything, especially considering that AoE2 is much older and players much more conservative.

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Split: to divide into parts or portions

Which means if there is a German split then the resulting German civ (whatever it is called after that) no longer includes Prussia.

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I’m afraid I’m not a history expert either.

I agree. AOE-3 deals with war conflicts in general during the modern age and the early years of the contemporary age, the discovery of America and colonization was only the opening of the game.

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This is sort of how I’ve been advocating this. Early game german doesn’t change. Only late game gives you the option to go prussian route.

British covers essentially the English and other nations of the British Isles prior to the act of union as well, so it’s fine and fits. The British in-game and in real-life is pretty much English-centric anyway in terms of being dominant.

I’d say that’s fairly different to Prussia and Teutonic Knights

Don’t quite get this comment. The British depicted in-game is clearly covering the English (followed by the rest of the isle not so prominently) and then British. From an English perspective this is quite linear as again, they were the dominent force in the British Isles. Not for this topic, though I always think they’re should be more Irish and Scots representation considering after the act of union it was a country of smaller countries.

The whole British/Prussian comparison is poor as it’s not similar at all.

For Prussia, it ‘starts’ as the Teutonic Order, has a fight with it’s own Prussian people as the people don’t like the harsh high taxes imposed on them, then has to deal with the Polish who go to aid the non-Order Prussians, then incoporates some of Prussia into Polish territory. By 1525 Prussia is a vassal of Poland then the Order Grandmaster becomes a Duke alongside going protestant and ditching the Order. Later is in a personal union with Brandenberg, bringing territory into HRE technically (but in reality not really - it was just seen as part of Prussia), then starts to become a military powerhouse (and free from Poland) in the late 17th century.

So TLDR, for me, Teutonic stuff is fine, as long as it’s not done as poorly as Hospitallers for Malta - i.e completely outdated 1200s chainmail armour and such. By the start of AoEIII’s timeframe, the Teutonic Order would being using Gothic plate armour (i.e. the Swiss Pikemen style in-game)

If there ever was a Prussia, I’d love to see their shtick as being merc-dependent and fairly archaic until you initiate ‘Prussian Military Reforms’ (a research tech at each military building?) which enacts a unit swap (kinda like the HC shipments, except more widely-affecting and available at buildings in the Fortress Age or something).

For example you could have 'Brother Knights’ (heavy archaic melee cav) available at the Stable by default, however can be completely swapped out later for Uhlans later, when the Reform is made, with the broad idea that the precursor units are more powerful, but slower in training and speed.

Barracks units would follow this pattern too (including the current Crossbowmen to Landwhere).

The Prussians could retain the trait of free Uhlans with shipments but their other identity would be this ‘gear change’ mechanic where you can modernise your army in one go (or per different military structure) which changes the gameplay style as your units won’t necessarily become more poweful than the previous line and their upgrades, but will become quicker to train, faster moving and more resource efficient (almost going into German stereotype territory here).

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Yes, better not to give ideas…

*Dixie was playing in the background…

Yes, I agree…that is, let’s call it Tatars in general, covering all the khanates of Central Asia and that opens the way for you to put the Afghans between Persia (which would go with Oman) and India…

Oh I understand I understand…

Yes, I agree…lastly they could make a revolution similar to the French one that would lead to the German Confederation or the attempted German Empire of 1848…

(Includes Prussia, Austria, Liechtenstein, Saxony and Oldenburg (that is, you put the native and Danish units there))

Yes, you are right, this discussion will continue to exist until they put Prussia into the game and rename the Germans Austrians (it won’t be Habsburgs because they are a royal house) with Charles V as IA…

That doesn’t fit into the chronology of the game…

As long as they were the Teutonic knights of the 15th century…

image

Yes, but the grenadiers are from the 18th century, so they are not that early in the game…

The skirmishers are from the 3rd age (Fortresses Age)…

Sooner or later they would have arrived anyway…

Yes, it would be the United States of Prussia, although in its defense Germany is a federal republic, so it could be…

Yes, but in its defense, AoE 3 moved a little away from colonialism with KotM…there’s a reason why Italy fits in (the Renaissance and the Risorgimento and the Basilicas and the Asian Wonders), Revolutionary/Napoleonic France (and the European random and historical maps) and Malta (based on the Siege of Malta seen in the Blood campaign, although Malta in turn had colonies in the Caribbean)…with KotM and the new European DLC, AoE 3 is like it went from American Conquest to Cossacks 2…

Longbows remained the main weapon of the trained bands, the home-defence militia of the Tudor period, until they were disbanded by Queen Elizabeth I in 1598. The last recorded use of bows in an English battle may have been a skirmish at Bridgnorth, in October 1642, during the English Civil War, when an impromptu town militia, armed with bows, proved effective against un-armoured musketeers.

They were added for the sieges of Malta and Vienna and for being a regional power in the Mediterranean…the only thing that was a little out of place until KotM (originally the game was going to have European maps, but they left it aside and focused more on American maps; this during development in 2004-2005)…

Also the theme of colonialism limited the focus of the game and being able to make new expansions… otherwise we would have stayed at TWC and little else…

Yes, I think the Prussians may arrive at some point, but the devs must still be seeing it…

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I hope that in 2025 we will see at least one DLC with nations from a continent other than Europe and some campaign (African or South American). In 2026, “Germans” could be remade into HRE for everyone and we could get Dlc with Prussia & Austria. This would give the option to release the “Seven Years War” campaign. Of course, the game has the potential for further expansions for at least 5 years, although in Europe, apart from Austria and Prussia, there are Crimean Khanate and Zaporozhian Cossacks only from really good options I think. But there are still many South American, Asian and African nations outside Europe. I would like to see a lot of historical battle scenarios, but also some new campaigns like the original AOE 3 and expansions.

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This thread is precisely to discuss if people want that. 29% says no split, 34% says rename Germans to Austria and add Prussia and 20% is either sick of it or don’t care. There’s someone from Modern Germany who voted for the latter, btw

If the Developers decide to change the “Germans faction” to the “German states faction” as a free-LC rework, the leader of this faction could be him Maximilian I Joseph of Bavaria - Wikipedia and the capital city would be Munich. In addition, let’s say in 2026, Dlc Prussia & Austria would be released along with this Flc which i mentioned. However, in 2025 two Dlc packs could be released - South American (Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina, Uruguay) with Mayans full civ Flc fore example in Spring and Asian Dlc with (Korea, Siam) and Oman Flc in November. I think it would be interesting for the community. In 2027 it would be time for Morocco & Zulu and Crimean Khanate & Zaporozhian Cossacks.