Seriously, stop buffing their elephants or the late game, give them something to survive archer civs. Honestly they would be mid tier if they had this upgrade and they would have a chance against crossbows which are completely busted compared to skirms in terms of upgrades cost and research speed and impact early castle age.
You’ll literally die to any archer civ…
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I would prefer they fix archers. Being somewhat weak early to archers isn’t a game breaking weakness when early archers isn’t the opening in 90% of games.
to elaborate, the unit is too cheap right now, melee pathing is still horrendous, and the upgrade cost to crossbow is laughably cheap.
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You can be weak to archers without being totally helpless when hitting castle age. In a very tight game where castle age timing is important, you’re gonna struggle a lot vs xbows with burmese. Doing cav is possible but it takes time to mass +2 defense knights, skirmisher upgrade is researched slower than xbow and it’s very expensive. either you nerf archers upgrade cost which i’m ok with since archers are still dominant or you give burmese their well deserved +2 archer def
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yes please. burmese are my favourite civ but they only nerf the fun parts (arambai :') ) without buffing the disgusting
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First make manipur cavalry a Castle age tech and then see what happens…
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This
Why do you think the ONLY counter to archers is skirms? Before we waste our time debating anything.
Why do franks win so many matches? They make skirms to counter archers?
Do Celts and slavs make skirms to counter archers?
You even point out how poor skirms are.
Use mangos to kill their archers, when they use mangos to counter you, convert them with dirt cheap redemption.
+2PA skirms aren’t going to help much in imperial either. Without any bonuses they’ll still get nuked by arbs.and you’ve wasted all that food delaying your up time.
Nevermind giving them the armour tech is the most boring buff
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How about this:
Give Elephant Archer and benefits to all the uniquely Burmese techs. So the 2/2 armor and Manipur. That’s a total 4/5 Ele archer that does extra to archer units, still not second armor tech so it works.
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Someone make this man a dev, great idea
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You can do:
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Full Knights
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Knights + Skirms
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Knights + Crossbow
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full Crossbow + Mangonels
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double Siege Workshop into Scorpions (or even single)
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defensive Castle
Stop asking for buffs to Burmese, their civ design makes sense, and they have a stellar late game, the tricky part is getting through the early game and other civs have such weak spots too, for example Aztecs is strong early game but terrible late game.
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I would argue that Aztecs have terrible late game… Some of best skirms in the game. Great champs. Arbs (yes, no thumb ring). Access to both Siege Ram and Siege Onager. Yes, they miss bbc and upgrades for castles (and a strong UU). But otherwise they have good options vs most civs.
Probably nothing
If you need it, yes. You need to go range in feudal of your opponent plays archers, else you will have nothing to defend from timing attack in early castle age. With every other civ you can make those range units, compete with crossbows timing in early castle age and eventually carry them through castle age if you need it.
Not even talking about cav archers, if opponent gets into a mass of 20-25 cav archers Is basically gg for burmese
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Well, At least you don’t have to wait till Imperial to get it, also once you get that tech if is in castle age it will truly help to tone down the xbow ball coming to you.
You will need to hold back with Mangonels at the moment before.
Maybe, but their lategame comps burn through gold really fast. Garland Pikes isn’t even close to make up for missing halb, the skirms are good, but their DPS is reduced from lack of TR, and everything else they make typically, especially eagles consumes gold incredibly fast. Hence why they are a bad civ in lategame.
The problem with Aztec Skirms isn’t thumb Ring, that extra accuracy (the only thing they get) is more negligible and Skirms don’t get attack speed from the Thumb anyway. Any slight 10% accuracy loss is more than made up for by the fact you can kill a FU standard Scout cav or Cavalier (no armor bonuses) twice as fast as standard skirms. The real hindrance to their viability as is probably the lack of Ring Armor which is the whole point of the unit to take arrows as well so you have to hope you kill the archers before they close the gap.
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But you Need to get a castle anyway, to delay imp to get the tech and it’s not unlikely that by the time you do all these things your opponent has probably mixed in some answer to cavalry. Then it’s also not useful against cav archers.
In general, it’s not a great tech in the context of burmese. Maybe as a civ bonus It would help, but as an UT It will always kick in too late (expexially because it’s extremely predicabile and scoutable), it’s probably even worse than the old tech.
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I would prefer we find a more unique solution more in line with what was done with Turks when they were the “dies to archer” civ .
Some possibilities:
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Restoring battle elephant speed to where it was before. This makes it much harder to kite bulletproof elephants and makes Howdah the archer counter it was intended to be
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Add Elephant Archers to the Burmese tech tree and apply howdah. I view this as ok for several reasons.
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There’s precedent for adding an x-pac regional unit to an older civ (steppe lancer mongols).
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It would be a thematically consistent way of giving Burmese an anti-archer tool (remember, Burmese is an elephant and monk civ.
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Myanmar is culturally and geographically closest to India of all of the RTR civs, being next to bengal.
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That would still leave siege elephants as the regional unit of DOI civs.
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Something to the effect of a bonus like “palisade walls have +0/2 pierce armor”. This still leaves the Burmese military weak to archers, but gives them some sort of way to try to boom to their strong late game.
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Apply Parthian Tactics to the Arambai. As is right now, Parthian Tactics is the closest thing to useless in the Burmese tech tree. They lack thumb ring and double archer armors, so HCA is not a serious option. Adding Elephant Archer would give Parthian an actual use for Burma. Barring that, it should affect Arambai. The unit would still be weak to archers but have more potential in the right circumstances to accomplish something.
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Just out of interest why is it useless against CA?
Imo I think it’s potentially OP in castle age and that’s why Devs didn’t swap it. The alternative is to take it while aging up(helps counter Arb spike), still comes in much sooner than waiting for imperial.
I like all these ideas. Hopefully we at least see a minor elephant buff in the next wave of changes.
I think the palisades will have a short period of being an advantage, as usually you can house behind and/or opponent breaks through with mangos
In case you didn’t know, archers already only do 1 damage to palisades, it’s only xbows that do 2 dmg(when the opponent could use a mango as an alternative)
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Because CA can hit and run and cavalry usually struggle to catch up, expecially with current pathing.
Tbf I think it would be almost never worthy to get the tech in castle age, since spending 400f 400g in a tech puts you so behind in term of Imperial Age timing and I don’t think the tech would give enough value to compensate. It might make sense to get It on the way up, but most of the times It would be probably better to wait for plate barding anyway before taking an engagement
You’d still die in early castle. You have to go for a castle, the tech and then play kts
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