The nerf in deleting 50 food from France starting crate was mostly to prevent players doing 12/10. Well, I think it is necessary in the current metagame in order to play more agressive against booming civilizations or in order to make France a little bit stronger because nowadays they feel like really average.
Basically their only favoured MU’s are against even worse civs like Aztecs and Russians.
And you can arguably say that the rest are fair MU’s but some don’t feel like that. It is really hard to beat Brits, Dutch, Germany and Sweden with France. A civ that gets mostly recommended to new players because it is easier to learn with them but nowadays they’re not as strong as the current civs that are dominating the meta like Brits, Dutch and Spain. Also on team games they’re are mediocre but personally i don’t mind that as much as 1v1.
I think that a good way to teach new players how to play would be making this civ more competent in the current meta because yeah, they’re easy to learn with how to play but they’re really hard to win with right now.
I know I just got off a little bit of the subject but I think that for this reason a good step to start with would be giving France their 50 food crate back.
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Both the tier list & match up lists have flaws, hard to draw conclusion based on them. Epecially considering sweden as A tier while dutch and ports as S tier is not close to be accurate competitive level. France with 12/10 option was overperforming especially considering their strong early game economy. However, they aren’t ideal mostly because of other civs which overperforms e.g sweden.
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France are fine as they are, very well balanced currently considering their very strong early game eco with 3cdb and 4 cdb, worth nearly 4 villagers and 5 villagers respectively.
Both the tier list and the mu graph are just one person’s observation, so it is not really that accurate I feel. It is very subjective.
France is in the correct power level. it is an all rounder civ, easy to play and no glaring weakness.
In general, I would rather want more powerful civs to get nerfed rather than buffing low civs. Imo, a civ being grossly UP is much preferable than a civ being grossly OP and ruining the ladder games for everyone.
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I remember France being way too strong on the old ESOC patch, but it was mostly because of the ATP build.
I could be misremembering, and thanks to my stupidity of not recording my older games I don’t have a more credible source than my memory, but I have strong on my memory that France could take the whole trade line easily, and was a particularly hard to punish because France have a good early game tempo and due to CDBs being so strong.
So this created a dilemma for the opponent, since it was particularly hard to push into the French base, because CDBs could join the fight, and was also particularly hard to fight their way through multiple trading posts with 3000 HP and a ranged attack, since you need a considerable mass to siege those. (It’s not like shrines or torps that 5-10 pikes sieges, because they shot and kill your units)
This was made even worst by maps with a lot of trade posts, like the old Esoc Central Plains (You know, the old version with the huge ~ shaped trade line going through the middle of the map).
On the current map pool, we still have some maps with huge trade lines, like Mexico, Dakota, Colorado and even stuff like Florida (If the 3° TP is not on the radius of the opponent TC, of course 
) that could make France be problematic once more if they start being fast again.
One may argue that the problem could lie on ATPs itself, for being too rewarding, since other problematic ATP builds, like the House of Bragança card for Portugal and Spanish Lowgistician have appeared on the DE. And this might be true.
But I don’t know, I do not like the idea of bring this old ghost from the past back.
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Desde la salida del “DE” han pasado a llevar mucho a francia, Todos hablan de que es flexible y tiene una economia solida, Pero son los mismo quienes le ganan a un frances facilmente, a Francia le falta mas innovacion se juega de la misma forma la que se jugaba el 2005, Por culpa de tratado nerfearon a sus gendarmenes y sus cartas, Quitar los 50 de comida me parecio justo, pero lo demas no, Por favor los desarrolladores revisen un poco la civ, yo creo que ha bajado mucho su tasa de victoria a lo largo de la salida del “DE” deberian hacer un mini rework para agregar una unidad militar mas, solo posee 1 unidad militar unica, no posee edificios únicos, posee un rastreador nativo que me parece genial es una buena ventaja pero lamentablemente no lo puedes volver a incorporar, Seria bueno que a traves de una embajada nativa lo puedieras comprar o directamente del centro urbano. Francia sigue siendo una civ Solida, pero menos fuerte y popular, Suguiero que innoven, vean la posibilidad de agregar una unidad militar mas, podrian ser un tipo de cañon o edificio. Agregar cosas raras innvodadoras, Aura en el fuerte, mas cartas y etc
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Well TP XP was around 15% nerfed since the begginning of DE. So this won’t happen.
I agree that we should nerf broken things but following the stadistics of the current tournament France has the worst winrate of all the civs.
The MU graph was made by Aussie Drongo. The Tier List was made by Hazza. And the stats are info based on the tournament. I think it’s pretty clear to see France is not in a good spot right now by just looking at the point of view of two pro players and the stadistics of a current tournament.
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France is having a bad time on the competitive scene after the -50f nerf.
From the games I recorded from the Amateur Division, France’s record is at 16W - 28L(Counting mirrors). Which is the worst on the championship by a good margin.
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I don’t have enough game/France knowledge to have too much of a horse in this race.
That being said, it’s a little dangerous to just go off of win/loss record for the current tournament. France is notorious for being a kind of standard or default civilization. Because of this, a lot of people are probably drafting it as a safety pick. Additionally, this statistic does not break down whether or not France was picked first or if the players had already used up their preferred civilizations.
Basically, due to the nature of the draft system of the tournament, France being a civ a lot of people have passing familiarity with, and a lack of further details, I don’t think you can take those numbers at face value. There is more nuance.
I’m not trying to say that the crates are fine as is. I’m just saying using current tournament statistics should come with a heavy grain of salt.
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exactly, 1 tournaments statistics with only a few games is not enough to warrant a buff or say that they are weak.
Before they removed the 50f france was too fast and could just 12/10 with a perfectly fine eco because of the strong cdb shipments and get the whole tp line before the opponent can even make a unit, compare that to portugal that often 10/10 and go atp, they can get the full tp line yes and age up fast but their vill eco is weak with no shipments and it takes a good while before the 2 tc’s pay off, if you get an early tp and contest the line you can easily fight that. Compared to france which had the fast age up, quick full tp line and a super villager eco from 3cdb and 4 cdb cards.
Well they have a bad winrate and they are not pick in the pro division bracket. It’s start to be kind of relevant at this point i guess.
Sure they suffer a lot from the port/dutch buffs, the op swe and some civs like spain that simply does better than french in certains situation, all of this results in france not being a good pick in tournament. This was the problem dutch had in tournaments for years.
They are okay in every situation, but in every situation you’ll find a civ that does better so more interesting to pick.
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why are we talking about france? when russia aztec and otomans are on tier C on that list?
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Here’s a question for you, the equation drongo used in the other part of this where we add points 1 for a bad mu, 2 for a neutral mu, and 3 for a good mu, using this equation we find that Germans, dutch, and Chinese are equal, so why on that tier list Germans and Chinese aren’t S tier with Dutch, and why aren’t brit and Spain in S+ tier?
Anyways my point is the mu list isn’t quite perfect, overall France are almost perfectly balanced because they have a good eco, good roster of units, good early game advantage with cdb shipments, where do you see a flaw? All around they are a good civ, not an amazing civ, but a good one, why should we change that?
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France is the only equilibrate civ in the game.
The rest of civs need changues.
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For championship, op civs with more picked, up civs with less picked.
This basically matches Aussie Drongo tier list.
Winrate can’t be fully adopted due to small number of game.
However, France and Lakota got overnerfed.
I agree man. Russia, Aztec and Ottoman are in bad state. We say but no body understand. I guess every one want his nations to be represtented good in the game.
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Y’all acting like if developers can’t buff the other civs and bring france’s 50 food crate back in the same update
Try to rank with France. You’re going to get outboomed by Brits, Sweden, Incas, Ports on water… Dutch and Spain are even MU’s but more favoured to Dutch and Spain (Spain is my best civ and i can compete economically with France ez). You need to play for 40 minutes in order to outboom everybody. That’s not funny and makes France boring because it lacks any agressive strat that can truly hurt those civs
I agree some civs need changes but don’t act like if they can’t buff the rest of civs and bring france 50 food crate back in the same update.
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France seems balanced to me. Of course it has disadvantages against the other higher civilizations.
Sweden: torps, carolinos, 6 infinite mameluks and svea lifeguard seem blatantly OP to me.
Portugal: In water or 10/10 TP’s and above all CM is OP.
Spain: The logistician is OP.
Incas: you have some too gimmicky OP mechanics.
Holland: they have too strong a defensive boom.
England: has a boom and a vesatility at 2 years too strong.
I would apply nerfs to the most lamers and abusive strategies, and of course I would apply necessary buffs to be able to remain competitive.
If the easiest solution is to return 50 food items to France and make again it another one an aggressive / powerful / versatile civ and one of the most powerful in the late game … Go ahead …
