the difference is sc2 has 3 civs. and people usually only play 1.
here there is 35 civs and we already have STRONG and WEAK civs.
this would make it so isntead of having the SAME STRONG CIVS and the SAME WEAK CIVS (or on the other side of the coin an ARMS race of continually buffing) we have cyclical balance and get to see a variety of civs.
so was NAC. whens the last time you saw real diversity in a tournament? yeah. it doesn’t happen.
You underestimate the number of ultra-nationalits that only play THEIR civ in AoE2, and would be completely pissed off with having it go on rotary buffs and nerfs.
Novelty is overrated anyway, it would be better to introduce new civs for that effect.
and how well does that work in the tournament scene?
yeah but they already said they have no plans to release new civs.
That is the issue, tournaments and competitive scenes are NOT the playerbase, most players do not even have an ELO ranking, because they do not play MP.
Starcraft 2 made that mistake, and so did Warcraft 3 and Red Alert 3; it does not pay off.
Most people want to watch competitive matches, not play them.
I saw pre buff vietnamese and khmer in nac. I saw burmese. I saw turks. And also I think berbers… So, no. In Nac they were a lot more of civs
Since Indians lack Plate mail armor too I don’t think it can happen.
The second pathfinding is fixed Franks are just going to rekt everyone
Still enough to take +1 hit from halbs. Same for their Scouts in feudal.
Franks have the Throwing Axeman that is tailor-made for helping Paladins.
Technically they are still played, but were put aside in HC3 because all maps were biased for food civs / hybrid civs and Huns are neither of those.
Why?
Well, almost all civ that got buffed were nowhere close to challenge Huns and frankly they still aren’t close.
Well, if for you civ wins are what make the civs unique… What makes them unique is their bonuses/tech tree. For instance that’s why getting things 1 age earlier is going to remain a Cuman thing or Relic that boosts units a Lithuanian bonus.
Many things changed for the best since AoC, like unique units being more used in general and naval battles no longer being Galley spamfests.
The previous point is not an excuse to create a “rotating pool” They do that in MOBAs and it’s quite bad because basically you would end up learning your favorite civ only for it to become useless in the next patch, which fortunately isn’t what happens with DE balance.
Only civ to get BBT, BBC and Paladins, for people who don’t like to have to choose 11
The tournament where Pre-buff Khmer and Pre-buff Vietnamese were used and won despite being trash tier? Where unusual civs like Bulgarian and Burmese were used and won? NAC3 was so much better for civ diversity than HC3.
Teutons are pretty cool, and they would have an easy fix, which I already post like 3 times today, so I will abstain from posting now.
Maybe not to Indian Champions, I think the Hand Cannoneers might have been at fault, to be honest.
Point is, if a civ that specializes solely in Infantry, with nothing else helping it, loses to generic FU Infantry, then something is very wrong indeed.
I agree, I hate rotating balance to “enforce diverse choosing”. It is a fake and silly way to balance out game elements, and push forward civs that are not played very much.
Partisans of MOBAs say that “no match is the same u can never get tired” Well, it’s more like “everyone is forced to be the slave of the meta and all matches played on the same patch are the same” 11
Bro, hard heavy cav civs suffer against goths as well, goths can spam halbs as well 
But yeah, I think goths deserve a better civ bonus to get some kind of value early on, something with food/gold tbh like “50% more food on hunt-able animals” or “20% longer lasting gold mines”. Anywhere further than that and I think it would leave them in the same spot as in previous patch.
Also, this is for every one else saying they don’t have a good tech tree. You all might want to watch it closely one more time, cause they have something very solid/generic going on their other military. They just dont have a 35% discount haha big problem. As if brits had some discount on archers, aztecs in infantry or lithuanians in cavalry. They also have nice siege, tho subpar it doesnt mean it’s totally useless, they have BC’s and the basics 
Goths have no FU trash unit, so no, they do not have a very good tech tree. Their Stables has no Plate Barding, and their Archery Range lacks Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics, not to mention that their Siege Workshop only has Bombard Cannon and Heavy Scorpion, both without Siege Engineers.
They have possibly the most imcomplete tech tree in the game.
Yeah, that’s pretty historically accurate for me. As I said “they have the basics” never said they were good at it tho, just solid/generic. And also, when have Goths been known for quality top tier infantry? They just have numbers and an eco that supports those numbers. I do support the idea of them getting at least stone walls for better defenses and some kind of early or long lasting eco bonus
This game can never be purely historically accurate, so that argument is moot.
They have nothing generic, that is their problem!
Everthing they have is subpar!
They have hand cannons and bombard cannons. Hand cannon is FU.
Once you get to imperial they have all the tools to beat whatever army is on the field. It’s getting there that’s the tricky part. I’ve always believed it to be fine to have civs that are specifically good on arena and fortress, just like I’m alright with civs being really good (or really bad) on Nomad. In order to convince me that the Goths are in need of some serious buff, I’d need to believe that they’ve been pushed out of viability on Arena. Otherwise, early tweaks is better in my estimation.
I’m not certain they haven’t been pushed out of Arena, as a matter of speaking. I’m just making the point that I feel it should be more of the discussion than it currently is and that it would be more effective at singling out problems to be fixed and changes to be made if considering them from analyzing their strength on a strong map. How I see it, otherwise it’s much like complaining about how weak Italians are while ignoring Islands.
It’s not just getting to Imp. They need to get to late imp with tech researched and still have the eco to mass produce their cheap weak infantry in sufficient numbers to overwhelm the enemy.
With out a good eco bonus to help them boom, they have one of the weakest ecos in the game and lack the final gold upgrade.
In short, before the 45 minute mark goths are easy prey
In aoc eco bonuses were rare. Most didn’t have one. Now every civs needs one?
edit: it seems i was wrong about this
As in: every single civ had one (if you count the unsignificant goth bonus)?
Almost every AoC civ had an Economy bonus.
Even if that was not the case, new civs and items have been added into the game, so like any other arms race, those who do not achieve some sort of parity will just fall behind.
Were it even true what you said, the meta has shifted anyway, as it does with any game that recieves any good expanded content.
There was alot to read and I just got tired, sorry.
I dislike longswords in feudal, totally op and broken. Just no.
The poplimit should be changed to +10% of map maximum, that’s probably something mostly everyone could agree with.
Someone suggested an armor buff, sounded interesting. +1 PA when reaching imperial (original barracks units only, so husk wouldn’t count, his good already on that department)
As for economy buffs, I’m really out of any suggestions for them. Maybe make barracks techs cheaper the same way their infantry is? Gets better per age.
10 percent pop is fine I’ve seen that proposed a lot lately and should be changed to that. The extra armor starting in Imperial should be +1/1 if that would be implemented. The pierce armor is very important for the Champions and even Halbs dealing with trash units. Honestly, giving Huskarls and extra 1/1 is not going to make them overpowered. The price of a Huskarl is double the gold of a Champion. It should be entitled to that change too if it was implemented.
I made a suggestion for an eco bonus of all food production increased by 5-10 percent would be a good idea IMO. Goths are food intensive. Especially when you’re trying to spam units out as quickly as possible. This game has so much power creep lately. Goths, Turks and Byz have gotten literally nothing since the AOC days. I’ll leave it as that.
A good Food bonus could be that their Farms start with +50 Food, for example.
Quite a few civs in AoE1 had bonii like this, and since Goths are mostly a Fall of Rome era civ, it would be a nice refference.
Another one could be that an extra Boar always spawn near their beggining TC.
I still think they deserve Plate Barding Armour, as they have no plan when it comes to support units and Trash Wars.