Goths- Make huskarls as cheap as goth condottiero and give goths supplies for the champion line and make supplies an imperial age tech

Goths- Make huskarls as cheap as goth condottiero and give goths supplies for the champion line and make supplies an imperial age tech
Will give them back their advantage in imperial that was taken away with supplies.

goths are already a very strong civ and do not need any buffs.
here is the overall (all players) 1v1 winrate - goths are #1.


here is the 1250-1650 bracket. basically the second highest bracket. - again. goths are #1. with a 56% winrate.

2 Likes

In reverse I also wouldn’t mind if the huskarl’s price were increased to that of the teutonic knight to bring people to treat it similarly carfully and against units they’re strong against to shift them into a proper play-style, spamming champs while carefully choosing where to send huskarls to turn the tide

for one the base cost of the Huskarl is only 5 food lower then the TK.
except there is a huge difference.
the TK has a lot of health, armor, high attack, and moves slowly. furthermore its rarely seen in high level play.
the huskarl on the other hand is fast, lightly armored (melee anyways), and has solid attack. its literally meant to be spammed. that’s reinforced by the mobility, the low cost, and the low armor, and how fast they are made.
cheap, expendable, overwhelm tactics.
basically goths employ blitzkrieg tactics to overwhelm their opponents with sheer numbers

5 Likes

I view the huskarl itself as a teutonic knight that traded melee armor for speed and pierce armor, carefully choosing fights vs ranged opponents rather than melee ones, while their champions are better suited for the blitzkrieg

except the Huskarl is trained much faster then the Champion is (16 seconds base vs 21 seconds base), and moves much faster as well (champion is .99 speed with squires vs 1.16 with squires).
again, huge difference between huskarl and TK. one is actually seen in high level play and the other is not.

If huskarls were intended to be a long lasting unit, goths would have never been given the ability to spam them out, and they would have been given the final armor upgrade too.

The champion has more melee armor which makes it worth waiting a little longer, either way goth champs still come out faster than regular ones and there is an emphasis on creating multiple barracks- huskarls being faster doesn’t necesarrily scream send me at the nearest deathtrap but to get it out quickly to help counter whatever the champions/other units are having trouble with

yeah but the fact is, goth champions are literally inferior to even generic champions and will get wrecked head to head against them.
even worse enemy cavalry and archers can rip goth champions apart.

if you’re going goths, in most matchups you should be building huskarls (anti archer) and halbs (anti cavalry), and let numbers beat any enemy infantry they send your way.

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Which is a general reason to give them supplies while at the same time making supplies an imperial age tech to properly adjust its balance

Goths are already verty strong as it si.
Huskarls are expensive, but it is not like you will actually train any other Gold unit, apart from them and either BBCs or Trebs.

Goth Champions are not good not because they lack Supplies, but because they lack Platemail Armour, an issue that cannot be resolved, because they would otherwise become grossly OP.

2 Likes

except the civ already has an excellent win-rate, why would they need buffs?
they are winning 53% of all the games they play in 1v1. highest of every civ.
they are winning 51.47% of all team games they play in. highest of every civ.

Supplies nerfed them against other infantry civs which took away their spam trait vs other infantry civs - numbers over quality, as far as champions go as far as cost, not necesarrily creation speed

goths have always been a quantity over quality civilization, even back in the age of kings days. and they save 35% on all infantry in the imperial age (which includes gold cost), so their champions only cost 39 food and 13 gold (vs other civs 45 food and 20 gold). they are fine.
if you want to buff them vs infantry civs by giving them supplies back, you are going to nerf them against non infantry civs. how do you propose to do that?

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They still do pretty well, and even then, Huskarls are amongst the most spammable UUs in the game.

The only issue they have, is that they lose to most Melee units.

which is as it should be. the civ should have a weakness, and if you’re going for quantity, the weakness is quality. if they had great quality too, the civ would be almost unstoppable. the only civs who could beat them is a civ that has an insanely strong infantry unique unit or cavalry unit that resists halbs.
so basically your options are vikings, aztecs, japanese or byzantines.

What you view them as, is completely the contrary of what they are.

Huskarls are a Melee Skirmisher that actually deals damage against buildings aswell.
Teutonic Knights are Melee focused Infantry that can take long slogging matches.

They are completely different concepts.

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or a waste of resources that gets destroyed by archers, siege onagers, leitis, cataphracts, etc…

They do well against Paladins, Hussars, Eagles and Champions.

TKs are only there to keep your Teuton Siege alive, and safe from fast Melee units.
How well they accomplish the job is debatable, but they are completely diferent to the fully offense oriented Huskarl.

yeah but i’m not going to be stupid enough to see my opponent is making TK and be like “LETS ENGAGE THOSE WITH MELEE UNITS” when i could easily kite them to death with archers.

very true. but yeah. point is. running into TK with most melee units would be something we call suicide.

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That’s true, you need to support teutonic knights with units that take down their weaknesses and vice versa, I like using the healing fortress and a maximum of 20 extra teutonic knights (a seperate formation) on the exterior to make the enemy send everything they got at them while supporting with other units as well to counter their weaknesses, be they my own units or an ally’s units - honestly best ally unit is a huskarl to counter ranged units harder