Gurjaras OP Armoured elephants

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I think a nerf might be needed here. Like make the Gurjaras’ armoured elephant bonus damage only kick in during the imperial age. Or reduce the armorued elephant’s attack to only plus 25% instead of 50%.

Or is T90 wrong here? Could spearmen/pikemen counter this during the castle age? Note, the attack is quite early into castle age. I skipped a bit into the video timeline to show the attack.

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2

Just make the bonus apply to Stables units, easier

I wonder how good is the Gurjaras Genitour

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3

Back on topic @BomberGriffin I think the 50% bonus damage has to be removed from armored elephants because is broken as fuck in castle age, you only need 2 to do absurd damage to your opponent’s buildings, go all in with camels and shri riders and gg.

I wonder when the PuP arrives, T90 Titans isn’t that far from finals, and is a good chance to see what balance changes are coming (esp to Gurjaras and Hindustani).

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The titanium league finals are this weekend (6th and 7th)
But the golden league finals are going to happen next weekend
Not sure when the next update will happen
And I guess Gurjaras will be banned from the tournament

5

Weird… Only because T90 only speaks about the effect on elephants it’s only about elephants?
I think the bonus is broken in general. Just tune it down to 33.33… %

6

Gurjaras Armored Elephant is better than other civs (except Bengalis with Paik UT) Siege Elephant without the blast area. But blast area is irrelevant against TC.

Damage per minute against building
Capped Ram without SE 1800
Bengalis Armored Elephant with Paik 1800
Capped Ram with SE 2160
Gurjaras Armored Elephant 2240
Siege Ram without SE 2400

Gurjaras Armored Elephant is better than other civs Capped Ram even with SE. And that’s just Castle age version.

Siege Ram without SE 2400
Bengalis Siege Elephant with Paik 2520
Siege Ram with SE 2880
Celts Siege Ram without SE 3000
Gurjaras Siege Elephant 3140
Celts Siege Ram with SE 3600

Gurjaras Siege Elephant is better than other civs Siege Ram even with SE. And Celts must need to research SE to be better than them.

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7

I think either ways:

  • Mounted units bonus damage redued from 50% to 33%
  • Mounted units bonus damage no longer includes armored elephant.
    I’m honestly fine with the Gurjara Camels since Gurjara lack pikemen and need something to counter cavalry effectively, but even then having all upgrades plus extra bonus damage + faster creation time + a UT that reduces food cost by 25% (same food cost as byz camels, but with Bloodlines) is just too much.

mmmm what if we do this:

  • Gurjaras lose access to Bloodlines
  • Mounted units bonus damage no longer include armored elephant.
  • Frontier Guards cost reduced from 800f and 700g (because is too expensive if Gurjaras are nerfed this way) to 600f and 500g (in this way the gurjara camels remain great vs cavalry but are a lot weaker vs non cavalry units).

You miss the Bengali armored eles with Paiks.

8

Or just Camel.

Their Heavy Camel will have only 1 more attack than Malians. Still faster to train, cheaper and more MA though.

Adding.

9

I think Gujaras power ceiling is ok, with that tech tree.
But the numbers, impressions and opinions suggest they are absurdly good in Castle age. Perhaps make mounted unit extra bonus damage staggered? Like +25% in castle, +50% in imperial.

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10

Why do you say “only”?

It’s not “only” it’s “still more attack than malians even with all those other bonuses”

I think this is more likely what will happen or they might even tone it down to 25%

Were you involved in the step lancers nerfs?

Nerf the eco(the actual killer)

Reduce the bonus damage (and doesn’t apply to AE)

Slow down shivs(negative player experience)

They don’t need this massive civ overhaul just because they’re strong. You don’t delete a civ just because it’s overperforming. It isn’t even auto winning games.

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Because 1 looks very small number to me (in this context).

12

I kinda wish Dravidians had the bonus damage on their armored elephants, then they have a clear win condition with infantry and siege in castle age.

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13

Why does Armoured Elephant count as a “mounted unit” anyway? There’s no one riding it! It feels like a mistake to me, but I’m not sure if it’s a mistake in the way the bonus works, or the way it’s worded.

14

Just remember: Anything that has more than two legs in this game counts as mounted :stuck_out_tongue:

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Barney Stinson: “I have also more than two legs! huh!”

16

I agree wtih this change. I can’t believe that they classify armored elephant is a mounted unit given the fact that no one is mounted on it

17

how about animals like Turtle and Scorpion :smiling_face_with_tear:

18

So you just ignored war elephants for 20+ years?

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19

Persians don’t have a bonus that affects “mounted units”. Maybe there is a team bonus that does, or some other bit of in-game text somewhere using that phrase – but the problem is really with the phrasing of the Gurjara’s bonus.

20

blood lines affects “mounted units”, simultaneously husbandry affects “cavalry”

gurj civ bonus isnt any more ambiguous than tons of legacy issues in the game. people just choose to be bothered by something that is new

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