nobody is complaining. perhaps you failed to understand what I said so i’ll say it again, “your units can’t kill skirms fast enough unless you have mangonel around”. does that somehow to equate “no trash units in front?” for you?
did you also perhaps missed I said they’ll chase you down, meaning they are throwing away the skirms to trade with your HC?
I don’t know what you are reading, mate, but this entire thread sounds like complaining to me. Heck, the title is complaining that HCs are too weak and need a buff.
This is just factually wrong. That’s my issue here. You can just use your skirms as a frontline meatshield, or use hussars, or even meatshield halbs. Like 3 cavaliers will destroy a small mass of skirms, if you can spare the gold. Or bombard cannons, which you can preserve as a backline siege unit.
Do you even read what you are writing? Let me quote you.
What is the implication here? Which trash unit did you account for, in this comment? Because I don’t read skirmisher, hussar, or even halbs anywhere in your comment.
It definitely does for me, because any cav unit will melt skirms.
Im not sure mate, other people complain and you shouldnt assume.
this is factually correct, wanna test it with me and I’ll show you how wrong you are?
Do you even read what I wrote? guess not otherwise you wouldn’t be asking these questions
imagine your hussar, even 20-30 can kill skirm fast enough that he’ll wipe out more than half of your HC which is what matters. do you not understand the concept of throw away skirms for gold units?
melt is keyword here. it surely doesn’t melt when skirms are bunched up, but you can certainly have your opinion. since you only quoted one-line and not my original post, no point to speak further as it is just taking things out of context.
I think this is the key point here. Clearly @TheConqueror753 and @filtercoffee488 missed it. What he meant is that Hussar definitely counter and kills skirmishers but speed is relative, and the opponent does not care at all if the skirmishers die, as long as it can trade even half of your handcannoneers and it’ll be more than worth it.
Except, you can’t do this without like 2.2k+ micro. Skirms target units closest to them, so move your HC away and close in with hussars/your own skirms.
If you can click 40 of your units to 40 of their units, you don’t need advice of anyone on this thread.
Okay, can you repeat what my position is, first? What is my argument here? Just to see if you understand me or not.
point to my original post when I mentioned elo? also why even bring elo into conversation? besides the units should be balanced at top end and not for entire range of elo.
once you stop twisting words and argument and stay on point, then you realize how wrong you are.
since you can’t and fail to read, refuse to admit it i’ll quote it here for you from my OP that you argued against.
there, I even bold the text for you so perhaps you can actually see what I said.
Okay, you aren’t someone who I want to engage with.
You can’t even restate my position, because you don’t know what it is. For the record, the proper thing to do there would’ve been to state my position as you understand it, and ask me to do the same to show that I’m not being in bad faith.
I don’t have the time or energy to deal with bad faith actors.
@gflings1 if you want to continue, I’m open to it.
The issue I’m specifically pointing out is, all that you’ve said applies to archers equally. So, are you now going to argue the same for archers as well?
I don’t need to restate your position because my comment and original OP was just that nor was it addressed to you. I stated why HC is the way it is. you’re the one who replied and start with attitude. good that you’re backing off, before going down the a hole you cant get out of.
I have made my stance and I think thief is correct in his thinking, that is my experience with HC even guarded by light cavalry in front. I can’t kill the skirmishers quick enough and often they just ignore the cavalry and go straight for HC, in order to trade his trash with my gold units.
Also, you mentioned about Elo, I don’t see why Elo would be at play here, especially even if what he said applies to high Elo only, it would still hold true at high Elo.
thats just him twisting argument to include elo from god knows when and where. i didnt mention anything about elo and honestly he really should think hard about this.
if a noob plays without micro and have hc dominates, do you think the devs would actually listen to the noobs and balance around no micro play? ffs people stopped thinking.
Yeah sure, 40 skirms vs 10 hussars/paladins/scorpions/champions, let’s go ! !
your skirm will never kill half of my hand cannoners running away while my hussars attack your skirms. Non lituanians skirms and non bohemian HC literally have the same movement speed.
There is a concept about not throwing your gold units in every single fight. Even less against skirms.
Before talking about buffs, we should talk about unit design. The question is what is the intended use for HC.
For me:
too bad its 40 skirms vs 20 hc + 20 hussars , if I kill 10 hc I win yeah?
Yeah, just try to catch them. HCs start out of range of skirms btw.
you would have to engage because I got infantry that you’re trying to kill if you actually remembered.
people like to misread, or immediately jump to conclusion so I’ll quote it as many times as I need.
So it is not 40 skirms vs 20 hussars + 20 HC.
Why would I need to engage with HC ? They are gold units, not supposed to be wasted. I would rather keep HC at home and send hussars raiding. And think about my next transition.
I agree that it is hard to play 1v1 late game against Byzantines 60 skirms + 60 halbs + 10 bbcs/trebs, if that was the point.
Then it depends on the civ matchup. As I said, HC are not the bulk of the army, so typically I had 30 cavaliers, I see your 30 halbs, so I make 20 HC and then see your 40 skirms. Then okay, I throw my army against yours, no choice. Double gold composition is only good when not behind. If so, I win the fight, sacrify HC for cav and raid with cav. If I lose, then I overestimated my lead and would have lost even with arbalesters or cavarchers instead.
why would it be with HC if theres no infantry to counter? so you like to take things out of context, got it.
So, imagine that you have husssars and HCs, and opponent has skirms. You push your hussars in front. Their skirms will now only target your Hussars. How do you get around this? There is literally only one way if the opponent also micros. That is to select small batches of skirms and manually target your opponent’s HCs. This can be done, but it’s so micro intensive that it is rarely done even at the highest level.
If you are middle ELO-player, you aren’t doing this. Simple as that. This isn’t a random concept, this is one of the core principles of AoE2 is balance. Which is why I don’t understand why we are arguing over this.
Again, you can can’t do this. If hussars are closer to skirms, the skirms will always target hussars. Hussars will always be closer to skirms, considering how fast they are.
These arguments make me suspect that you and @thieftdp8498 don’t even really understand the game. You are stating a thing that can’t be done, and doesn’t even understand why it can’t be done.
dont need to tag at me bruh. if you had replied without attitude from the beginning i would have no need to respond in kind. seeing the one that brings elo out of no where, i’d say you have no idea what you’re arguing about nor do you understands the game