give them more move speed pleaseee!
Becsuse you wrote that:
You did not mention the skirms, I thought maybe they died already because my opponent didnt foresee my HC switch.
It wasnt clear in your first post:
Even though I agree that we shouldnt use up the leftover gold for HC, it is the same for nearly all non ram/trebs/bbc gold unit. including arbalesters. You can replace HC with halb in your statement, it is still true. And nobody complain about arbs needing a buff.
It sounds to me that you decided you want HC buffs and blindly defend a position without thinking or listening to people disagreeing with you about whether your idea is good or not. And just change the focus of the problem when you have no argument anymore.
If you just " try to win" and attack me instead of my explanations, no point in discussing further with you, it brings nowhere.
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No, they shouldnât be faster than generic infantry (w/squires)
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And if their skirms are bunched up, they arenât chasing you. And if they are chasing you, they become vulnerable to cav. You donât need a mangonel to kill skirms. And you really need to calm down, youâre way too aggressive towards everyone.
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Let me just end this argument. Here are two scenario editor simulations:
Both these simulations are done with all techs enabled, so no civ advantages. The micro Iâve performed is complete garbage, just to illustrate how the results are same even with terrible micro (for the stronger side). I didnât micro the hussars around to attack the skirms, or even use split micro with hussars and stop with HCs to rub the salt in.
Iâve given the skirm side a few halbs, just to even out both sides a little bit more, and to show you how wrong you are.
FIRST GIF:
Do you see what happens? The skirms target the closest units, which are the hussars. That does little to no damage.
How do you get around this? crazy micro, by individually targetting HCs with skirms.
This is not for the guy who wonât be convinced no matter what, and just want to win some internet argument.
This is for people who genuinely donât understand what the issue is, and how it works.
described yourself perfectly.
did not mention in my OP I want HC buffed. I stated why I think they are lacking. could be cost, speed, hard to micro, not worth trading.
you wouldnât really want to make HC against pikes anyway as you would just make skirms, only really need HC when theres units thats hard to kill even for your hussar, such as berserk with chieftain.
edit: which the above scenario is described by my OP.
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⊠do you know not of micro? Why must the skirmishers be left on auto attack would be a serious question. I think this clears it up. You think everything should be left on auto attacking, but then when you make hussar, you target skirms manually? Did you not think he would have the infantry or pike in front?
The double standard I must say, you can manual target while they must leave their skirmishers on auto attack.
Did you watch both gifs? I microed one side in one, and the other one in the other.
You HAVE to manually target the skirms. That is how the game works. That is not my fault, that is game design.
Yes I did, but you then contradict yourself by saying that skirmishers will attack hussar and barely does any damage.
In @thieftdp8498 post, he mentioned the opponent is throwing skirmishers away to go after the HC, and not even all of your HC, just half is already worth the trade for 30-40 skirmishers.
I am sorry but seems to me you are agitated enough to not read his points, I canât really take you seriously as it was all described above.
I donât understand what you are saying. Skirmishers will attack hussars by default. You can make them attack HCs manually. But you canât do this in actual game because of high micro intensive this is.
And you are not throwing away skirms to go after HCs in a real game. Just play those, and youâll understand why.
Alright, Iâm done. Keep believing what you like. I have that other guy blocked, but Iâm sure he should be insulting me with each comment I make. This isnât worth it any more.
If Iâm wrong, @TheConqueror753 @Zelley00 @Martinurello please feel free to point out. Doesnât feel like Iâm missing anything here though.
Why would skirmishers must attack hussars on default? How hard is it to have infantry guard the skirms while micro the skirms in group of 30 to go after your HC? Itâs literally like 3 buttons.
Press X to guard with group of pike, to your skirms.
Control Skirms only to go after HC.
Why are you so blind to this? Do you seriously understand the game? Even people with below 1000 elo can do that, and you bringing in elo of all people. Listen to yourself, please.
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You wanna try this, live? Iâll make a lobby. We can determine how many units are need to balance it. Iâm willing bet on this, how much can you do?
The stakes neednât even be that high. You just need to make a post on your socials, and reddit saying that you were wrong, and how you were wrong.
You can sling personal insults all you want. Stand by your words, and take the bet, oh high elo player. This should be easy for you, right?
Or, are you scared? You know that you canât actually back up what you are saying, and now you are trying to weasel your way out. Itâs kinda funny tbh.
The skirmisher player in that scenario was definitely unrealistically microed, which tipped the results for sure. Youâd never have the halbs so far out of position from the skirrms, the two units would always be together. So the halbs would actually do pretty good against the Hussar. You can also just shift queue targets up as the skirmisher player. So in an actual fight, skirms might be better. As far as Iâm concerned, the HC shouldnât even be in that position though.
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I would have to disagree. For low elo player @filtercoffee488 's own argument. a simple guard is enough.
Decent players can just control pike just front of skirms while skirms go after HC, and the two groups move together. Isnât even close to being unrealistic.
What is unrealistic, is that you think itâs not possible to micro. It really isnât that hard, you move towards HC, right click, while have infantry near your skirms, repeat.
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yea lets try it live so I can finally shut u up.
@TheConqueror753 see, youâ;re still missing the point. trading away skirms for HC is all that matter. losing 30skirms for like 10-15 HC is totally worth it long as they canât kill your good infantry unit.
urumi warrior, berserk with chieftain, teutonic knight, w/e that is good infantry late game against trash and hussar you name it. itâll be just as I described with no way out but lose HC unless you donât engage.
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What? Maybe reread my post. I definitely never said itâs not possible to micro, that wouldâve been someone else. In fact, I said:
My view on the micro there seems to align more with what youâre saying, so Iâm not sure why youâre saying you disagree with me?
Edit: Wait, did you interpret âunrealistically microedâ to mean âmicroed too wellâ? I meant entirely the opposite, nobody with any skills would ever micro the skirms like that if they were paying attention.
Do you mean gif 1, or gif 2? I canât micro both sides at once. So, they arenât microed well in one of them, obviously. Actually, they arenât microed well in either, but each side is microed in one gif.
Yes, I agree with that. Iâm just not sure the skirms would be able to touch the HC at all if the HC player pulls them back in time. Then you probably run into a weird situation where you arenât getting any value for them, but at least they wouldnât die. If they have HC though, that would have to be for a reason, and in all probability, their HC are also going to be trading against the unit they were made to fight, so itâs not as simple as just skirms get great value by killing their HC, if their HC kills your gold unit and their hussar kills your skirms at the same time.
then how to improve handcannon more/
that is the situation, which is not engaging.
its actually a lot easier to micro as the skirm player since your aim is to lose skirm for hc, while the hc player have to get in to kill your infantry at long, unaccurate distance and not lose your hussars OR HC, to maybe kill off a few skirms which the skirm player is totally okay with.
skirms are meant to be spammed, hc canât due to gold. this was very straight forward not sure how the other guys have such difficult time to understand.
in a scenario in late if im berserk with chieftain + bunch of skirms and few trebs pushing your base, youâd have no choice but to engage or lose eco. HCâs strength to counter infantry is there but when in groups it doesnât work that well due to itâs cost.
i donno i think the recent 5hp buff is decent enough. maybe cost 5 gold less to start
edit: or higher archer armor, still countered by skirm but takes less damage
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