I’ve been recently trying out Haudenosaunee, which many people believe is the most difficult civ to learn to play well (aside from the 11 tomahawk rush). So far, I’ve been impressed with the resilience of the units, and I’ve been able to do relatively well gameplay-wise. However, if I had all the power in the world, I’d change a few things:
- The Immigrants upgrade is broken (I’ll report that elsewhere when I finally dig up the save file). This mattered in an FFA game I played where I got wiped and transplanted my base. When my pop limit dipped below 100 after the upgrade I was a bit disappointed.
- The community plaza Earth Mother Ceremony that grants extra population is just adding button clicks to expand your population size. Once you click to train units, they’ll train just fine, and you can revert the ceremony. The Earth Mother ceremony is now always active with a (+X) next to the population limit in the UI, and you can just do the other dances at the same time.
- Rams are really expensive for what you get from them. Reduce cost or let them have a hand attack to defend against other units. (though the fact that they take only one pop with the card is really nice)
- They could really use the other crate options (like 700 wood/1000 wood).
- When wood runs out on the map, they can no longer make Kanya Horsemen, Tomahawks, or any of their siege infantry (cannons are lost for everyone, which is fair). This is a pretty big loss to their unit compositions, and it leaves their villagers vulnerable at that stage. A card like the Aztecs got that replaces the wood cost with a coin cost would be beneficial for treaty.
- Louder sound effects for the arrows from war huts would also help me know (when I’m attacking native buildings) that I’m under fire. It’s not always clear like it is with the european civs
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the cards of tribes of it are very expensive even with the discount letter of 25% and very little, before in the old Ao and 3 was 75% discount was very good, and the question of Tomawaks and Kanya in Treaty and very bad in question of the cost of wood in long games and sure lose, sorry my bad english
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I found the Rams very powerful, they are a real headache against a Dutch, Swedish or Japanese, I wish it was available in the commercial age in the arsenal, it would be a nice change, I mean, the Swedes have leather cannons in commercial too.
As for the exchange of wood costs for gold, it would be the most successful and great thing to do (it’s funny because this was requested a while ago and curiously they applied it to the Aztecs 19)
2 Likes
Hauds had as many personalities as Aztecs were taken by the Incas. Aztecs have a powerful early attack tool, but Haud doesn’t have that either. Haud’s basic personality is that they can create free wagons or get them every time they age up, but the greedy Incas plagiarized them all.
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Hauds main trait is taht they are the only civ that can produce Cannon.
The Aztecs and lakota always had the 2 War Huts Travoid card, and that is basically what you would build with Hauds Travois anyways.
I wouldn’t have complained if the Incas had only been able to build WH with Travois. Even their Travois can build TPs. The reason for choosing another native civilization for the Incas gradually disappears.
And although limited, the Incas can also have Cannons. Anyway they have Cannons. It is an undeniable fact.
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“Being the only native civ to have cannons” is a strange delineation. The main purpose of cannons is area of effect attacks, and the Haudenosaunee cannons have reduced splash damage compared to Falconets (though they have other benefits). Moreover, they only get cannons at age 4, which is quite a reach for many games.
Haudenosaunee’s real standout abilities are stealth (Forest Prowler) and versatility (Travois). What I suggested in my list add to those abilities.
An alternative idea I had though is that Haudenosaunee were renowned for living in/among the forests. Rather than having them chop wood, they should be able to cultivate the forest. Maybe let them plant trees as a worker ability for X food cost, and have the tree “building” autobuild over a certain amount of time. Or let the Haudenosaunee villagers gain some food/coin when they’re chopping wood because they’re making the most out of what nature is providing.
I’d like it if their bases would look different than the perfectly clear, organized masses of buildings you see from the other civs. Maybe trees spawn small huntable animals when near a Haudenosaunee town center. Maybe their units can move through trees far easier than other civs, so forests aren’t a natural barrier to them.
Also, they should get some kind of benefit for using a tribal marketplace and requiring a bit of wood to mine their gold. It would be really nice if mining units garrisoned inside and were somewhat safer from enemy raiders, for example…
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They cut trees, their entire architecture was Wood and rough-cut Stone.
The Hauds were not mystical Elves that grew trees, and the game already moved away from more esoteric abilities for the Nat-Ams.
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Look, I’m not advocating for mysticism - these sorts of behaviors aren’t attributing any sort of magical ability to the civ. Tree planting, natural products cultivation, and moving through trees aren’t magic. Heck, India can plant a mango grove with shipments - why not be able to plant individual trees?
Besides, the Haudenosaunee build their buildings by spending time in the community plaza! What’s this “Wood and stone” crap?!
3 Likes
add infinite grove option to haudenosauenee and india, or make some card with which the tomahawk and kanya cost gold, and very sad not to have the pleasure of playing with the haudenosauenee en treated 60 minutes because the wood ends
If you compare Haudenosaunee agricultural methods to that of their contemporary European counterparts, they may as well have been mystical elves in the forest. Sure, they cut down trees for buildings, but they also cultivated entire forests for food as opposed to fields of food. (They still did fields, but not nearly on the same level that Europeans did, and even then it was usually for the Three Sisters, squash, maize, and beans, which require less on-hands management than single-crop fields.) Agriculture among Native societies of the eastern seaboard was more about cultivation of forests, which is something I think the game should explore with an eventual Haudenosaunee rework.
In the same vein, they need to remove the Lakota’s ability to use farms or plantations entirely, as the Lakota did neither. Let them passively produce coin from bison, and let them passively produce bison over time from their TC or the Community Plaza. Honestly, the Lakota need Kronos’s passive from AoM - the ability to deconstruct and reconstruct buildings around the map, as that would most closely mirror how we actually lived.
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Neither of those things work well with gameplay, and even having replaced normal mining with a 25 Wood buildings that can only have 10 Miners at a time, was already a huge nerf.
The more “bog standard” any civ has it’s economy, the more play it sees, and the easier it is to balance.
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It would be good to allow Travois to build TPs. Why can’t Haud but can Inca?
Inca is new and need to be OP
If they want to nerf the Incas, simply provide a PC travois and a Barrack one, on the other hand, I agree that the theme of collecting gold should be redesigned, I think that the vast majority of players agree that it was not a good change. I also agree with the idea of the boy above, when someone plays in Punjab, they receive a travois of mangoes, maybe they should provide the haund with the ability to build structures like this with the travois in industrial. (with the detail that only the Haud villagers may be collecting in it)
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Hauds already save a lot of Wood by performing ceremonise for Travois, so I honestly think their wood economy is strong.
What they actually need, is a ceremony to generate Mantlets. It is one of their more distinctive units, and Hauds are the only native civ that does not generate a permanent combat unit in the Community Plaza.
It would also pair well with their Siege focus, aswell as several underused cards they have, such as Conservartive Tactics and Siege Discipline, which are not usually taken, because players just skip both other Siege units, and go straight to Light Cannons.
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Unfortunately, it’s better to buy wood from the market to replace wood up to 250. In order for Haud to manufacture Tra, the villager must be locked in a CP.
Move Town Destroyer to Fortresses, as fast as possible, I already tried it 2 times and it is worse than the Inca rush of the first version.
Lol this build is super garbage. You can kill the wc with 10 vill on the tc. Idk about inca rush but this one is a very good joke.
4 Likes
Or you can put 4 villies in melee to pummel the WC to death.
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