Hera and viper: portuguese, turks, koreans OP

And bulgarians very interesting

Tatars cool for viper, useless sheep for hera

People are missing the portu and korean storm that is coming

I didn’t watched their ideas yet. But I don’t think their buff OP.

Portuguese: Research faster, I am not sure about ages maybe if it effects ages it can be strong bonus with Imperial to Feitoria build order but I don’t think it’s OP. Just having your blacksmith techs earlier maybe help in the battle.

Turks: Maybe in Feudal Age you think strong but archers terrible against generic scouts, have a few spearman to counter Turkish Scouts. Elite Janissary wasn’t great. Not OP.

Koreans: They lost tower identity, got archer identity. Armour bonus nice I am not sure about it. I think we need to see this bonus in action.

To me, real OP civilizations was Cumans and Lithuanians in Release Balance. And Age of Conquerors Mayans was OP but they are nerfed a little bit.


Neither do they think those are op.
@EvilLordMrF is just putting statements into their mouth they never made.
Hera even literally said something like: It’s cool, but not overpowered. I think it was about the Portuguese buff.

Viper said he is nervous (dont remember the exact wording) about some of them (Koreans, Turks) and said some civs are surely going to be a lot more viable. That’s also not the same as something being overpowered though.


Portuguese and Tatars didn’t need their buffs especially the Portuguese, Tatars need buff but not in this way, buffing them by giving them more food is totally wrong, they already have tons of food, Koreans and Turks are fine now, Bulgarians buff is so huge more than enough

Yeah, that’s why winrates say otherwise. as does tournament stats.

already debunked this.


I believe the Ports with their 20% discount on gold have the strongest eco/military buff in the game، i never felt them bad after this 20% discount on gold, just look at it, cheap siege, cheap monks, cheap knights, cheap xbows…this is no joke and now 30% faster techs this is really huge

the problem is getting to the point where that is useful. i mean look at mayans, malians, huns and goths. all of them save resources on units too. but that doesn’t prevent them from having early game bonuses to help them get to the point where those discounts are useful.


I think koreans will remain low pick rate.
Their buff is not appealing enough for normal people to try them.

Thhe other big buffs of the patch (not counting shotels, gbetos and jagusr warriors) are more llamative

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No, not by a longshot.
The strongest Eco buff is the Indians Villager discount, and the strongest Military buff is the Teutons +2 Melee Armour for Infantry and Cavalry.


I have a feeling that you don’t know Portuguese can’t research gold shaft mining.

IMO it is Vikings free wheelbarrow and Handcart.


The Villager discount saves so much Food, I honestly think it is better, specially for Booming, or recovering from a raid.

And in top of that, indians has shorefish bonus ans sultans UT.
Vikings have dock discounts

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Na, teuton cheap farms save more resources when going for a proper boom.

And The Viking eco bonus is best for 1TC plays.


every time I watch Hera play Turks, he loses.


I’ve really enjoyed new Turks and new Portuguese. I haven’t played much new tatars yet. But I’ll give them a go soon.

Knights cheaper on gold than camels and xbow cheapers on gold is quite a huge bonus, malians+portu is 110% faster university upgrades for portu that is insta ballistic and chemistry , even without stacking with the malian bonus their faster ballistic can define a game in 23 mins, portuguese are over buffed specially since they have limitless resources.

Their UU is still trash and so is the hand cannon, they should have fixed that instead of giving more bonuses.

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because those would totally fix the weak Portuguese early game that is the root of their issues. CLEARLY they should have buffed there late game when they have a hard enough time just getting there.


I mean instead of trying to subjectively guess we can look at the stats… Indians aren’t winning games so they definitely don’t have the best eco bonus. Pre patch it was statistically either vikings or more likely aztecs.

Vikings because almost all they have going for them is their eco bonus. Aztec had to have their eco bonus nerfed in order to be balanced. (if this isn’t an indication of contender for best eco bonus then logic doesn’t exist)

Now it’s likely still vikings. But imo too soon to tell.

BS they are not weak on dark age or feudal, drush without taking gold, cheap archers, you can have 5-6villsin gold instead of 8 that means a lot in economy optimization.

They are still weak in imperial age lacking of a strong unit and army composition cause of the slow halbs, at least compared to stronger imperial units.

the stats say otherwise, but i guess we should listen to you instead of months and months of data. if what you say having less villagers on gold means a lot, why weren’t turks a better civ despite MINING gold faster? especially since that gold could turn around and be used on more then just units?