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Great tier list from great pro player, and I mostly agree with everything but I have some comments on the list tbf.
IMHO:
-Janissary is S tier UU not A
-Bohemians wagons B tier not D
-Mameluke B or could be C
-Konnick B tier
-Gbeto B tier
-Organ guns A tier
-Cho Ku Nu A tier
-Arambai C tier if not even D. The devs killed the unit so hard with many nerfs; feelsbadman and sad, RIP Burmese UU was one of my favourit units :"(
This is what I see. He is the pro though, he knows better, but this is my personal opinion.
Many greetings
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Cool list and I think it seems to correspond with the general consensus on UUs. Although at the same time I think it depends on how you define the UU
For example he is listing the UUs based on their civilizations, which technically isn’t correct. And there’s a few UU that I just disagree with completely
Starting from obvious ones. Ghulam is getting nerfed. It is too cost effective for what it does in castle age. How can a unit not be S-tier, and still require a nerf?
I find it almost hilarious that Hera himself is not factoring the cost efficiency of gold Vs food(ghulam vs huskarl). At the same time I think he himself has stated how huskarls are actually a bad UU in castle age. And on that same note, even a generic archer civ with generic champs can beat huskarls even in imperial. nevermind beating them with either archers or cavalry before that point.
And it’s made worse if we consider the huskarl APART from goths. We realise how bad it actually is. Huskarls actually cost 80f/40g. You immediately realise how bad huskarls actually are
Conversely, give ghulam, conqs or mangudai to literally ANY civ and they’ll be useful.
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Huskarls are cheap with Goths discount for infantry and they are with no doubt S tier UU that is so tanky and melt buildings. The unit is not bad at all and do their job very well.
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Janissary falls off in imp and it’s not Turks’ best strat. The S tiers are exactly that.
Why hussite wagon B? I don’t think it’s ever useful. Bohemians’ real UU is Houfnice for me.
And yes while Arambai isn’t as good but it’s not D tier by any means
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Janissary never fall. Once you get the numbers whatever your enemy have he will die, their death ball is undefeatable, they one shot everything with their high attack and high range with low numbers, they are absolutely S tier not less.
Hussite wagons are good and not bad at all, with Bohemians bonuses you can mass them and make the enemy economy looks terrible with their raid and tanky Pa and high hp, and they have high attack, maybe I exaggerated by saying B tier, but they are D tier neither, at least C.
Arambai is dead, the unit now is useless and die to anything, the devs nerfed everything the unit have, they nerfed their speed, their attack, their cost, their training time, they are C tier at best.
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Ghulam wouldn’t be as good if they didn’t fit Hindustanis’ comp so well. Huskarls are only 56(52) food 28(26) gold units with Goth discount. The base count is obviously inflated for balance reasons. Huskarls+ halb is hard to deal with for most civs. Going champ is only a counter if you can match the Goth production. Not to mention Huskarls are some of the best raiding units on open maps, good luck sending champs to chase them down
Janissary die hard to arbalest and Eskirms in late game, their range doesn’t do them much good with their accuracy against small targets like arbalest. Arb player adds halbs and Turk player can’t do anything against that comp
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To be fair thw devs have admitted that the cost kf such units is determined with that bonus in mind.
Seems you never tried Elite Janissary vs arbalests, they melt them. Turks Hussar+Elite Janissary is undefeatable. There is no chance. Elite Janissary alone can deal with Arbs and skirms. You can test in the editor, just put 45 Elite Janissary vs 45 FU generic arbs and you will see the results. Turks indeed will suffer if the gold ran out vs any civ, but their army combinations are so hard to deal with.
Turks HCA+Hussar+BBC, or Hussar+BBC+Janissary both of these armies combinations are S tier.
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Even though Kamayuk is B-tier, I feel like it’s underrated by Hera even in the same tier. How is Kamayuk behind Serjeant!!
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Yes although in term of cost it is not good for Janissary, but In tern of death ball, arbalests and skim cannot do anything
Funny, I’d been wanting to make a thread about UUs for the past few days, mainly focusing on how to make the weaker/underutilized ones more viable. But with regards to this tierlist:
I’m not surprised he puts Chakram in S tier. While it has its counters, it’s so good at what it does and synergizes so well with Gurjaras’ other units that I definitely think a moderate nerf to Chakram should be part of the Gurjara nerf.
Also I agree that Conquistadors are S tier, but Elite Conq doesn’t scale that well and IMO is more low B or high C tier, so I would average it out as A tier personally.
I’ve also made the observation that he has, that Urumi is basically a better Samurai (and Jag, and most low PA infantry UUs). Also, pros and casters almost always overrate the DPS of (Elite) Samurai, which is no better than champ vs. non-UUs.
Huskarl is good but I would have put it in low A tier. It fills a useful role within the civ but its overall power is much lower than the other units he puts in S (Coustillier, Mangudai, Chakram). I think some people rate it so highly because without it Goths would be absolute garbage, but even with it they’re a low tier civ. I also think Rathas are better than he gives them credit for (B tier I’d say), but it’s hard for them to shine given how weak Bengalis are.
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If your opponent isn’t microing maybe. But with half decent micro arbs win. Especially cost wise
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Shottel warrior isn’t a good unit but it’s a very good unit for ethiopian.
It’s very effecient if your castle are attack by ram(fast to produce and high attack)
Great against huskarl
Can one shot TC if you have them in a siege tower
I don’t say it’s a good unit but the best you can dream for bow civ. For british, I would switch longbow with shotel warior.
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Arbs have half the fire rate, with micro they’ll do better. Also Turks will be dead by 45 arbs and never get to 45 jannissaries. Jannissaries definitely can’t outmuscle both Skirms and arbs, they barely win vs pure arbs
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Janissaries are also far more expensive (and if you’re going for Castle Age push with them, you’re somewhat likely to not be up faster than your enemy with just Crossbows), so trading 45 Arbs for Janissaries is a nice trade.
Hussar spam with Janissaries is a post-Imp comp that relies on you having a good boom, otherwise you’re simply not going to afford it, and it’s very likely you’re up against someone who can boom better.
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Exactly. It’s still a food heavy infantry unit, that is actually only effective beyond a certain point in the game.
Because the tier list has some hidden jokes in it.
I feel like Hera was possibly pandering to the viewers or something. As I mentioned, hera previously said huskarls aren’t that good in a previous video, now does a full 180 and puts them at S tier.
I’m also doubtful of the tier of ballista elephants and CKN
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He is not a closed map player and he barely plays with unique units. His army composition with Turks is mostly light-cav/camel + crossbows in castle age and heavy CA + hussar in imp. Also he never plays closed maps, so its only understandable that he values gunpowder uu lower. I agree with you on Janissary, Mameluke (B) and chukonu but don’t think Organ guns are A tier outside of Nomad and Arena. And Hussite wagons are really really weak for their cost and definitely a D tier unit.
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Is Chakram that good?
Felt like they are the less good things Gurjaras have.