@Tgaud
All top player use assyrian CA. 99% of tournament game are assyrian mirror spam CA. At low level (your level probably) nothing is op, but at high level aoe1 is unbalence and not really interesting. This is the reason why aoe-de need to be more balence and this is beta tester job 
.
@āMystic Tabooā said:
Join the Europeans/Americans who donāt play reveal map. Reveal Map is mega silly on Aoe as could even see where trees were being cut down. In ROR they removed this thankfully but still obvious where the enemy villagers would be to kill. We play random civ in team games as well so might not even have an assyrian in game.
Thatās very nice. Unfortunately, how am I supposed to play with my fellow compatriots?
I wish this game was taken seriously so to have an event with SERIOUS settings so it would stimulate the Brazilians to play with adult settings.
@someone else: wall is not a proper answer. There maybe no spot to wall.
Watch this and you will understand. Even Choson can beat Assyrian:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Kjz7uM8rLzY
The same can apply to Greek, Yamato, Cartha etc. Any Civ that plays Stable first will have a speed advantage over Civ that plays Archery first.
make all archers fire at 5/6ths the speed
I think it has been confirmed that the Upatch http://upatch-hd.weebly.com/features.html changes are being incorporated, so Chariot archers will take longer to train and fire slower than previously.
I agree with Tgaudās acceleration implementation idea in AoE DE. Old features should be reconsidered.
You could also give them a longer firing animation to slow their attack rate and make them less effective at kiting.
@Tgaud said:
@qweytr24 said:
@Tgaud said:
against CA you wall. temporize go iron and come with cavalry archers and geavy catapults.there was no problem from what i remember.
if something in the balance must change its not nerfing that must happens but boosting.
assyrian are good in bronze but **** in iron.
against hitties elephant archers and heavy catapults they do nothingthe only nerf i think is ok for Chariot archers is to nerf their acceleration (not speed!)
so the hit and run become very difficult.
nearly impossible.but if you remove speed it will be impossible to catch assyrian and yamato villagers once wheel exists
There is no such thing as acceleration in the game. And I think Assyrian and Yamato villagers should be made slightly slower, but even if you canāt catch them with CAs thatās not a problem, as merely driving them away from the resources is enough to cripple the enemy economy.
well its a remasterization.
So u can implement acceleration. its a 15years old feature. itd easy to implement and it would a great tool
I understand it would be possible to add that feature in the game, but I think that would change the nature of the unit too much. Slower acceleration would make hit and run tactics almost impossible, which is an important element in army micro management and something I like a lot. Just decreasing the speed or range would not change how the unit can be used, it would only make it slightly weaker.
@qweytr24 said:
@Tgaud said:
@qweytr24 said:
@Tgaud said:
against CA you wall. temporize go iron and come with cavalry archers and geavy catapults.there was no problem from what i remember.
if something in the balance must change its not nerfing that must happens but boosting.
assyrian are good in bronze but **** in iron.
against hitties elephant archers and heavy catapults they do nothingthe only nerf i think is ok for Chariot archers is to nerf their acceleration (not speed!)
so the hit and run become very difficult.
nearly impossible.but if you remove speed it will be impossible to catch assyrian and yamato villagers once wheel exists
There is no such thing as acceleration in the game. And I think Assyrian and Yamato villagers should be made slightly slower, but even if you canāt catch them with CAs thatās not a problem, as merely driving them away from the resources is enough to cripple the enemy economy.
well its a remasterization.
So u can implement acceleration. its a 15years old feature. itd easy to implement and it would a great toolI understand it would be possible to add that feature in the game, but I think that would change the nature of the unit too much. Slower acceleration would make hit and run tactics almost impossible, which is an important element in army micro management and something I like a lot. Just decreasing the speed or range would not change how the unit can be used, it would only make it slightly weaker.
in the original aoe the hit and run was almost imposdible because of 1.5 sec delay beetween order and realisation.
modifying acceleration can fix the no lag effect which make the CA op
@Raw1812 said:
You could also give them a longer firing animation to slow their attack rate and make them less effective at kiting.
no because changin attack rate also change the power of unit when not kitting. i think the problem indeeed is the hit &run but what we have to fix is the ārunā part
@Amphiprion said:
@Tgaud
All top player use assyrian CA. 99% of tournament game are assyrian mirror spam CA. At low level (your level probably) nothing is op, but at high level aoe1 is unbalence and not really interesting. This is the reason why aoe-de need to be more balence and this is beta tester job.
youre nice but i was playing with the top1 mondial player in 98. : feanor /elf_of_fire/ elfanor.
the balance was ok.
phenicien, minoen, assyrian, yamato,hitties where balanced.
later came the choson.
and again aoe never was designed for 1v1. its more a team/clan RTS
acain you want to make this fame the new korean 1v1 mirrored RTS game. but its not what we want.
please go find another RTS with your 0.01% korean progamers and dont come corrupt the funniest game ever.
the balance was ok.
Pleaseā¦ can you read that (vietnam community is the most devlopped in aoe1)
In 1v1 they play only assyrian and shang (because soooooo unbalence)
In team they play only mirror (because sooooooo unbalence in team too)
Vietnam tounrnament :
All game are assyrian mirror or random mirror.
Balence => Not at all.
@Tgaud said:
@Raw1812 said:
You could also give them a longer firing animation to slow their attack rate and make them less effective at kiting.no because changin attack rate also change the power of unit when not kitting. i think the problem indeeed is the hit &run but what we have to fix is the ārunā part
Yes, but the unit makes no sense as it isā¦
It combines the speed of chariots with the power of bowmen BUT bowmen cost gold. The CA should at least cost some gold as it is the superior version of a unit that DOES cost gold.
So you want to keep the DPS the same but lower its effectiveness in kiting with acceleration. That is actually a very good idea, but the game doesnāt have acceleration.
My solution is this: Add an animation that adds about a half second to his attack.
Imagine he is at point A and kites to point Bā¦what difference will acceleration make against melee units? Just that it takes him slightly longer to get to point B and give a chance for the melee units to catch him. What difference will a half second animation make? That he gets to point B faster, but takes more time to fire, thus giving the melee unit a chance to catch him if not microed flawlessly.
Also, the slower attack animation would give a chance for units to fleeā¦and their range should be reduced from 7 to around 5ā¦if you watch youtube videos of how they are use it is super lameā¦some guy just spams a bunch, rolls into the enemy base. Fires a bunch of times while the melee units slowly walk towards them, and then just roll off before anyone can touch themā¦itās just terrible.
They should definitely be a glass cannon/support unit, not a main army composition unit, it just makes for bad gameplay.
Also, when you think of what kind of unit it isā¦really it should die very easily at melee range. Think about it, if I am standing still up in a chariot, I make an easy target if I am motionless, any swordsman could just jump on my chariot and chop my head off. And in an actual battle if a spearman walked up and I didnāt move, he could just jab a spear in my horse. I am stuck on my chariot and canāt defend myself while firing or holding the reins of my chariotā¦thus a really low hp would be justified.
@Raw1812 said:
@Tgaud said:
@Raw1812 said:
You could also give them a longer firing animation to slow their attack rate and make them less effective at kiting.no because changin attack rate also change the power of unit when not kitting. i think the problem indeeed is the hit &run but what we have to fix is the ārunā part
Yes, but the unit makes no sense as it isā¦
It combines the speed of chariots with the power of bowmen BUT bowmen cost gold. The CA should at least cost some gold as it is the superior version of a unit that DOES cost gold.So you want to keep the DPS the same but lower its effectiveness in kiting with acceleration. That is actually a very good idea, but the game doesnāt have acceleration.
My solution is this: Add an animation that adds about a half second to his attack.
Imagine he is at point A and kites to point Bā¦what difference will acceleration make against melee units? Just that it takes him slightly longer to get to point B and give a chance for the melee units to catch him. What difference will a half second animation make? That he gets to point B faster, but takes more time to fire, thus giving the melee unit a chance to catch him if not microed flawlessly.
Also, the slower attack animation would give a chance for units to fleeā¦and their range should be reduced from 7 to around 5ā¦if you watch youtube videos of how they are use it is super lameā¦some guy just spams a bunch, rolls into the enemy base. Fires a bunch of times while the melee units slowly walk towards them, and then just roll off before anyone can touch themā¦itās just terrible.
They should definitely be a glass cannon/support unit, not a main army composition unit, it just makes for bad gameplay.
Also, when you think of what kind of unit it isā¦really it should die very easily at melee range. Think about it, if I am standing still up in a chariot, I make an easy target if I am motionless, any swordsman could just jump on my chariot and chop my head off. And in an actual battle if a spearman walked up and I didnāt move, he could just jab a spear in my horse. I am stuck on my chariot and canāt defend myself while firing or holding the reins of my chariotā¦thus a really low hp would be justified.
The gold cost is not the problem. CAs are only powerful in the Bronze Age when thereās still plenty of gold mines on the map. In the very late game when gold has run out scythe chariots destroy CAs.
Increased attack delay could be another way to make them weaker, but decreasing their range all the way to 5 and decreasing their HP would make them way too weak. They are not actually cost effective against foot archers even now and cavalry can also work as a counter on open terrain.
@qweytr24 said:
@Raw1812 said:
@Tgaud said:
@Raw1812 said:
You could also give them a longer firing animation to slow their attack rate and make them less effective at kiting.no because changin attack rate also change the power of unit when not kitting. i think the problem indeeed is the hit &run but what we have to fix is the ārunā part
Yes, but the unit makes no sense as it isā¦
It combines the speed of chariots with the power of bowmen BUT bowmen cost gold. The CA should at least cost some gold as it is the superior version of a unit that DOES cost gold.So you want to keep the DPS the same but lower its effectiveness in kiting with acceleration. That is actually a very good idea, but the game doesnāt have acceleration.
My solution is this: Add an animation that adds about a half second to his attack.
Imagine he is at point A and kites to point Bā¦what difference will acceleration make against melee units? Just that it takes him slightly longer to get to point B and give a chance for the melee units to catch him. What difference will a half second animation make? That he gets to point B faster, but takes more time to fire, thus giving the melee unit a chance to catch him if not microed flawlessly.
Also, the slower attack animation would give a chance for units to fleeā¦and their range should be reduced from 7 to around 5ā¦if you watch youtube videos of how they are use it is super lameā¦some guy just spams a bunch, rolls into the enemy base. Fires a bunch of times while the melee units slowly walk towards them, and then just roll off before anyone can touch themā¦itās just terrible.
They should definitely be a glass cannon/support unit, not a main army composition unit, it just makes for bad gameplay.
Also, when you think of what kind of unit it isā¦really it should die very easily at melee range. Think about it, if I am standing still up in a chariot, I make an easy target if I am motionless, any swordsman could just jump on my chariot and chop my head off. And in an actual battle if a spearman walked up and I didnāt move, he could just jab a spear in my horse. I am stuck on my chariot and canāt defend myself while firing or holding the reins of my chariotā¦thus a really low hp would be justified.
The gold cost is not the problem. CAs are only powerful in the Bronze Age when thereās still plenty of gold mines on the map. In the very late game when gold has run out scythe chariots destroy CAs.
Increased attack delay could be another way to make them weaker, but decreasing their range all the way to 5 and decreasing their HP would make them way too weak. They are not actually cost effective against foot archers even now and cavalry can also work as a counter on open terrain.
I agree, I think the attack delay is the simplest option. I still think they should cost a little gold even if it is not the solution though. I still think they should be a support unit and not a unit that wins games by itself.
I try to make walls and some Composite Bowmen with Minoans. I train some slingers in the transition from Tool Age to Bronze Age also.
again modiftying attack rate will just break the unit.
the unit is weak against cavalry on 1v1.
its weak enough against composite.
just modify acceleration of the unit is enough to rebalance it against hit and run
dont break the game please.
CA was part of the charm
@Raw1812 said:
@Tgaud said:
@Raw1812 said:
You could also give them a longer firing animation to slow their attack rate and make them less effective at kiting.no because changin attack rate also change the power of unit when not kitting. i think the problem indeeed is the hit &run but what we have to fix is the ārunā part
Yes, but the unit makes no sense as it isā¦
It combines the speed of chariots with the power of bowmen BUT bowmen cost gold. The CA should at least cost some gold as it is the superior version of a unit that DOES cost gold.So you want to keep the DPS the same but lower its effectiveness in kiting with acceleration. That is actually a very good idea, but the game doesnāt have acceleration.
My solution is this: Add an animation that adds about a half second to his attack.
Imagine he is at point A and kites to point Bā¦what difference will acceleration make against melee units? Just that it takes him slightly longer to get to point B and give a chance for the melee units to catch him. What difference will a half second animation make? That he gets to point B faster, but takes more time to fire, thus giving the melee unit a chance to catch him if not microed flawlessly.
Also, the slower attack animation would give a chance for units to fleeā¦and their range should be reduced from 7 to around 5ā¦if you watch youtube videos of how they are use it is super lameā¦some guy just spams a bunch, rolls into the enemy base. Fires a bunch of times while the melee units slowly walk towards them, and then just roll off before anyone can touch themā¦itās just terrible.
They should definitely be a glass cannon/support unit, not a main army composition unit, it just makes for bad gameplay.
Also, when you think of what kind of unit it isā¦really it should die very easily at melee range. Think about it, if I am standing still up in a chariot, I make an easy target if I am motionless, any swordsman could just jump on my chariot and chop my head off. And in an actual battle if a spearman walked up and I didnāt move, he could just jab a spear in my horse. I am stuck on my chariot and canāt defend myself while firing or holding the reins of my chariotā¦thus a really low hp would be justified.
the problem with the animation is that it impact the dps of CA even when its not moving (lets say against a cavalry archer or elephant archer) the overall dPS get decreases.
it break the units
the accelerations decrease only impact the hit and run.
the acceleration doesnt exist but it can be implemented. its a remake and thats the point of a remastered version.
more over it give more tools for balance to the devs
@Amphiprion said:
the balance was ok.
Pleaseā¦ can you read that (vietnam community is the most devlopped in aoe1)
http://www.voobly.com/forum/thread/147336
In 1v1 they play only assyrian and shang (because soooooo unbalence)
In team they play only mirror (because sooooooo unbalence in team too)Vietnam tounrnament :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF9CAlAz_mAKC0r2WEdVZRM8ec4hXKPzgAll game are assyrian mirror or random mirror.
Balence => Not at all.
no one care about your 1v1 progamer thing
again : go find another game.
no one care about hugh competitive here.
age of empire is designed for epic team games. no korean or vietnamese 1v1 progaming.
Its not THIS kind of game.
go play chess