How to counter dozens of Chinese grenadiers?

I already realized that team games here are garbage, drophacks are not fun, but now I also found the spam of the Chinese grenadiers, that destroy everything in milliseconds, they blow up castle in 3 seconds, mangonels don’t stop them due to their radius. The only thing that came to my mind was the English archers, so what, now i only have to play England because someone might decide to abuse the grenadiers?

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Not a good idea

Not allowing Chinese player to spend a ■■■■ of resources to get into MING + having 130 eco pop

So basicily you have to avoid a shitmaps like Mountain pass or black forest (but here is much better just to spamm 40 mangonels with 30 springalds)… good u can dodge without penalty

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Chinese never gets to Ming Dynasty in 1vs1 games. If they do, you did something wrong. Other than that you should know you let your enemy spend ressource for imperial Age twice. So your army should be bigger and easily handle grenadiers.

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As I understand it, this is sarcasm)

Fair enough, play like a normal person does not work here. I understand why mangonels spam, but why springalds? They will also be good at killing grenadiers or is it just against siege? My thinking works differently, but probably this is good advice.

Mangonels AND archers. It works!

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But in TG this could be a problem.

Exactly, we are talking about team games.

  1. Ming isn’t free, 2 x 3600 = 7200 res.
  2. Mangos available in Castle age
  3. 12 mangonels = 7200 res.

Get 12 mangos, add some springalds, sit back and enjoy the massacre.

When they Imperial x2 + mass Grenadiers meanwhile you can’t have at least 10 mangonels, as harsh as it sounds, it’s gg (git gud) time.

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Ok thanks, at least now i know what to do, but still it seems to me that this is a broken unit right now. At one time there was exactly the same situation with riders who blow up castles.

I suffered the granadiers spam 2 days ago. I tried with mangos and didn’t success.

I’m talking about team game, mountain pass, 4v4. At first when I saw the 80 granadiers come I thought “ok, so I mass mangonels”. I built like 10 mangonels, but they were killed by the granadiers without effort, why? Because they are faster than the mangos and they can just change formation so they minimize the damage taken, and when close enough they one hit all your mangos.

They will lose a few units, but you will lose all the mangos, and they will destroy all your buildings in seconds.

China has some units that in my opinion are game breaker. I will never understand the purpose of fire lancers, like, horses units massed are good enough to fire your base in minutes, but fire lancers will do the same in seconds.

Granadiers are “ok” but I think something has to be changed… Tried massing lancers, archers, mangos, etc… In that game and nothing worked.

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Put your mango’s under 3 control groups.

The splash damage from grenadiers is huge, so if you have 10 mangonels aside of one another, they will be shredded easily.

You have to keep in mind that the additional power of grenadiers is kept in check by the huge amount of resources required to be able to produce them.

The best Counterplay to them is stopping the enemy from ever being able to build them, this might not work on every map especially in team games but the unit and how it is implemented in the game isn’t unbalanced.

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Ming Dynasty, which is needed for grenadiers, is so, so expensive. My general statement is that "If the China player is killing you with Grenadiers, they could have killed you with normal units too. So you should be trying to prevent the China player from freely getting Ming. Punish them for spending an additional 3600 resources. Attack China in feudal, where they;'re relativley weak. Use knights to harass them and their allies. Massacre their villagers.

In any case, if your Chinese opponent has in fact made it to Ming, Mangonels do still beat grenadiers. You jsut need some knights to screen for the Mangos long enough for the mangos to fire.

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Use the mangonels they said :joy:
Now I’m generally afraid to play team games against China.

Sounds like something that happened to Fire Lancer. It’s too difficult to enter a dynasty in 1v1, but too strong in TG. I don’t know if the developers can find a balance so that Chinese civilization can be used in 1v1. A lower threshold to enter the dynasty, but not too strong in TG? Fire Lancer is now much better after a fix, maybe Grenadiers can do it too.

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EXACTLY!!! You are the only one who thought of this. Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. When I complained about the imba Fire Lancers in response, I received exactly the same nonsense, “they expensive”, “huge amount of resources required to be able to produce them”, “long way to them” and etc.
As if that could justify the fact that the unit is broken.

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Its impossible in team games. There shouldn’t be a case of “Dont let X civ do Y” Why? Why can’t they not let my civ do Z? All civs should be able to counter every other civ if played properly.

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Actually, I agree that they should nerf grenadiers while reducing the cost of Ming Dynasty. I was just noting that as it is, the brokenness of grenadiers is rendered irrelevant in 1v1 by the high cost of Ming Dynasty

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3vs3. We attacked the Chinese and almost finished with him. Then he makes 70 grenadiers. 9 mangonels barely took their lives. Absurd. I think it’s a disgrace. HRE with mma to the maximum do not endure so much mangonel.

Unit balance should have nothing to do with 1v1 or 2v2s. The game mode itself is irrelevant. I am seeing a lot China ban on custom modded Free-for-all games. Because its always granadier spam in very late game and since other civs have no counter to this spam it becomes boring gameplay.

My suggestion is to reduce their range by 1 or 2 tiles so they can be countered easily by normal archers.

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