How to gut Lithuanians in one move

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Lithuanians

CIVILIZATION

  • Can now research and train the Winged Hussar instead of Hussar.
  • Lose access to the Blast Furnace technology.

UNITS

  • Leitis: attack damage increased 12 :arrow_forward: 13.
  • (Elite) Leitis: attack damage increased 14 :arrow_forward: 16.

yes, lets’ go and make Leitis just OP without relics, and just make Lithuanian paladins, which weren’t OP, just trash and tied with Teutonic ones, which are probably better right now.

For what are you doing this nerf, for people which is incompetent to get relics? cmon
While they are still OP in Hybrid maps-_- and at the same time Chinese, Mayans and Vikings allowed to be OP??? and Double Castle WW? Burgundians and Flemish revolution? OMEGA LOL
This what happens when you go for Historical Accuracy
@Cysion maybe you could explain us the reason behind these changes?Thanks in advance and pls remove Winged Hussar.
#RevertLithuaniansChange

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Teutons have super slow knights so not a fair comparison.

Either way, I think like this is the wrong way to balance the civ.
It just forces you to take advantage of castle age or just kind of die (and the civ was already super dependant on relics goddamnit). Its probably going to be balanced (slightly weak, but balanced) but it just makes the already weak design even worse without adressing the main problem which is water as well.

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Slow but better eco, defenses, etc

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I would far rather be Lithuanians with stronger FU knights on castle and amazing dark age eco.

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Leitis won’t be OP after this change, they are receiving a buff to attack because they are losing blast furnace. That will essentially wash out. And they are still very weak to archer fire.

Their Paladins will still have +2 attack over FU generic paladins if you collect the relics. Which despite the tone of your post, will actually incentivize players more to get them ASAP.

Chinese are getting nerfed, if you noticed. I won’t comment on Mayans and Vikings as I mostly agree with you.

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But still. At most it’s a bonus of +2 over generic. For a bonus you have to work for.

Do you really think them losing 28 food max per farm is going to have a big impact?

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And isn’t guaranteed, it won’t man, Frankish ones and even teutons are better now, thanks by noobs who are just incompetent to get relics.

Might as well remove husbandry from Franks as well, or lower Farimba to 3

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Sure man. I wouldn’t have nerfed Liths this way. BUT:

They still have a monastery bonus
Are receiving Winged Hussars, stats unknown but we can confidently say will have utility
These what if scenarios are considering post imp situations, which the vast majority of 1v1 do not make it to.

These nerfs are really for team games where Lith’s really shine. Which kind of sucks because now their teammates will REALLY never have their own relics, instead giving them to their Lith pocket who is starving for them.

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Teutons. +2 armor and conversion resistance at the cost of husbandry.
Lithuanians. +2 attack (maximum), with potential for lower attack. Can be denied. Can be lost

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Well they lose blast furnace, they aren’t stronger in the aftermath just better initially and less upgrade cost.
I would be fine with that change besides I don’t really understand the reasoning behind it.

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For a team bonus, yes. But no, it’s not far enough.

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So more incentive to go franks in team games.

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That’s why i pinged Cysion

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The rationale behind this change is that since the winged hussar would be a buff in imp, then they had to be nerfed in imp too. Leitis buff is so that Parthnan clones wouldn’t moan about UUs

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At the same time thats’ why I want to remove Winged Hussar from them, was just a bad move

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Yeah probably, but I think Franks were not as good as Liths as pocket pre nerf, so overall it’s reducing the oppressiveness of pocket cavalry civs as a whole. It’s a start, if that is where their head is.

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If it were me. I would allow them to keep Blast Furnace, but only get plus 2 damage from relics. Only 2 relics needed then for them to shine.

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FYI unless winged hussar is the equivalent of 2 attack better rhen normal hussar its a straight downgrade for Lithuanians there too.

So their halbs are worse.
Their Paladins are worse.
We’re unknown on their hussars.

That’s a pretty big nerf.

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At this point I’m planning to propose heavy nerfs to Franks then:
Chivalry replaced with Knights returning 33% of gold cost
No more Husbandry

Might as well give Paladin back to Bulgarians to finally have the supreme paladin

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https://aoestats.io/stats/RM_TEAM
Franks 9.42% playrate. Lithuanians 3.95%.
https://aoestats.io/stats/RM_TEAM/1650+
Franks 8.83% playrate. Lithuanians 4.53%
Yeah. Let’s make Franks more appealing

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