How to kill english in feudal age?

I’m kinda tired to fight against english in feudal age where they have 2 super good units, MAA and longbow, while other civs have nothing. For example, with Ottoman, what do you do against Longbow and MAA? Nothing?

Just makes the game so hard when playing against english, are the devs at least aknowledging there is a balance problem? At least in feudal age? What is the strategy to beat that ?

I thought the english are supposed to be a defensive civ, not an aggressive one. They probably shouldnt have access to MAA in age 2 honestly since they already have longbow, without MAA they would be more like originally intented, a defensive civ that can wall up and shoot with longbow behind walls…

I think maa should be available for every civ in feudal. Spearmen and archers can do nothing against maa.

maybe some civs may have maa of inferior quality.

Probably you don’t unless there is a skill gap. English have MAA and Longbow indeed, but also have attack speed aura and a stronger town center. Of course if English is too greedy and makes 0 units that is another story but in general I think English are hard to kill in Feudal.

Why is that so? Why do you think the only way to win is by doing Feudal all ins?

the heavy cavalry surpasses him, in equality of resources

Which civ you playing?

With ottomans, I think sipahi+archers with mehter buffs owns this. You can mass more units and harass his eco with sipahi.

I was talking about feudal age. Which is totally unfair against english. The other ages are more fair. But the first 2 are completely unfair.

Sipahi + archer get completely crushed by MAA + longbow. especially if they have just a few spearmen. Even with the Mether armor bonus.

No but there should be many strategy, you shouldn’t be forced to only fast castle, which isn’t that good because your opponent can take advantage of it.

There are other age 2 strategies like 2nd town center, trade, etc… But nothing works because they will just crush you if you dont immediately go fast castle, meanwhile they can just stay in feudal and destroy you or boom their eco.

the French and Rus cavalry can beat them, in feudal age

You only have to snipe these few spearmen with your archers and then longbows are totally unprotected, because MAA can’t protect them from horsemen. And if they mass more spearmen to defend longbows then they can’t train more MAA.

Sincerely, in feudal age, spearmen+longbows it’sm way more deadly than maa+longbows. With longbows you can crush enemy archers and spears, and even maa, and your spears just protect your archers.

And feudal MAA can’t dive into TC or even into archers or spearmen like castle age does, so not really a problem. You just need to play more against English in my opinion.


Yeah with archer tthat shoot 2 tiles less than theirs ? Their spearman can move back. And their MAA will already be all over your own archers/
No the MAA are worse because they can jump into your archers no problems and there is nothing you can do.

Also you talk as if the english don’t have horsemen. They have all the same units PLUS MAA PLUS super strong longbow.

And you talk like they can mass 30 horsemen while massing maa and doing longbows.

If they do horsemen to kill your archers they can’t mass MAA because the cost, if they mass spears to counter your horsemen they can’t mass MAA because the cost, and if they don’t mass spears you can snipe them with your archers.

And if they can mass all those units and you can’t mass counters, they are just way ahead of you and maa is not the problem dude.

The dead ball of a feudal english rush are the archers+rams, and to protect archers and to protect this comp build spears, not maa. Maa is not a problem in feudal.


My point is that at equal resources, they have more options and better troops.
There is nothing that counter MAA in age 2. Also you can mass as many archer but yours are bad compared to theirs. One or the other would be fine, but the english are the only ones with TWO op unit in age 2.

You can test in the map editor if you want, just make any composition of all available units in age 2, equal resources, lets say one player is Ottoman, and one player is English.

English MAA + Longbow + Spear
will definitely win against any army composition that cost the same against other civs.

The MAA, even if it tanks, does not defend the lbs of the sipahis well.

The Ottoman should stop the English’s first push and try to advance to Castles. The full Feudal I think it would harm him.

It depend of the numbers, MAA costs gold and are expensive to mass to a early feudal eco. If you let him mass as many archers as they can just one shoot your horsemen, then yes, you are dead. As Adri said, versus a english doing that rush you should stop the push and then get to castle fast.

Another tip pros usually mention is, if you are military behind, DON’T engage his army, but DO attack his reinforcements. Simple 2-3 horsemen in the middle of his base and yours can kill some longbows comming alone, and force him to retreat to protect his reinforcements while you are getting more army and preparing to battle.

Don’t forget MAA costs gold, raid his gold with horsemen.


I don’t remember having said the only way to play against English is to fast Castle. You are putting words in my mouth… Your post is basically “there should not be any civs better than others at defending in Feudal or at least they should be all easy to kill with all ins”…

You know that archers have a higher movement speed that longbows, and you play ottomans on top meaning your archers move like crazy.

Feudal MAA aren’t that strong + if for some reason you went AOE heal you can heal their damage. Also MAA can’t catch up to your archers and if they decide to play backline defending the longbows 1) your archers can free hit the longbows while the longbow hit horses or take damage from them otherwise 2) you can get some damage with horses before the MAA gets near the longbows. In any case both your horsemen and archers can avoid MAA altogether if needed.

Their spearman can move back. And their MAA will already be all over your own archers
Not true MAA are slow + what you said means your horsemen are on top of their longbows. And again assuming you are playing Ottomans, there is no way the English has more units than you.

You can test in the map editor if you want, just make any composition of all available units in age 2, equal resources, lets say one player is Ottoman, and one player is English.

English MAA + Longbow + Spear
will definitely win against any army composition that cost the same against other civs.

What map editor, you and your English opponents have different economies among other things. And even then MAA will be not very effective vs archers + horsemen. And longbow + spearmen will lose to pure archer spam from ottomans as the spearmen will be useless and the ottoman will have more units even if the English only makes longbows. And there is Mehter buff on top of that.

There’s no balance problem; all civs are balanced around being “OP” in some regard at some stage of the game. Your imbalance assumption can be generalized to every single civ with the only solution being to make all civs the same civ.

A defensive civ with a feudal advantage in army unit strength doesn’t make any sense. There’s no way of leveraging an army defensively if you haven’t already boomed. You leverage an army advantage by dealing damage. The longbowmen works as intended.

Perceived imbalance is a common when you lack concepts to describe why you’re losing. The most common culprit is accumulating mistakes giving the enemy a lead. By the time the lead manifests, whatever the enemy happens to kill you with seems OP, while the thing you lost to had nothing to do with it at all. Be careful never to assume imbalance.

As far as killing english in feudal is concerned, you don’t kill english in feudal. It’s near impossible. Their TC’s are too strong to rampush, and their longbowmen can nibble off at your units in a fortified position. NOTE that this is not enough to give them an advantage, that’s why they often attack. You don’t survive to win a game, you win game by grabbing leads.

You want to get out of feudal with an advantage. Either by repelling their army with a decisive strike or by surviving with better econ. Longbows are slow and benefit from brief clashes. If they ever get jumped at a single moment of army size disadvantage, they lose it all. You want to cater to this, and this weakness of theirs gets even worse vs a mehter speed aura.

Under absolutely no circumstances do you want to fight an English army before you’re ready to annihilate them. A tower can buy you some stalling time as you mass up. If they manage to push through and threaten your eco before you’re ready, forcing you to engage, you made some strategical error prior. If they hit age 3, it means there was a moment when you had 1800 more resources worth of army and could’ve wiped them but missed the opportunity. What’s scary about english is if they retreat while aging up. You need to be ready for this so you can do eco damage if they attempt it.

Pure Horsemen/Sipahi with upgrades do well against MAA/longbow. MAA don’t hard counter them, and horsemen hardcounters longbowmen more than MAA soft counters horsemen. Mehters even make your Sipahi quasi- MAA, the strength of their auras is so great it might get nerfed. If they add spears, you want archers. Then it’s a micro battle. The free sheeps can keep your food econ safe and on par with english farms for most of feudal, but without the farm investment even.

With your army comp having cavalry, you can force the english to leave army back home to be safe, forcing them to fight with a smaller army. You can also kill reinforcements crossing the map before the big main engage. It comes down to execution. In these scenarios there are a million of factors to improve and iterate upon. If you’re lacking direction, watching pro games, or swapping civ to english are all great ways of finding the details useful for dealing with early game aggression of any kind.


You usually dont want to fight in feudal against English.
Problem is at least in season 3 you could beat them in castle, but now with all the buffs rhey are just good in every age.