I don’t remember having said the only way to play against English is to fast Castle. You are putting words in my mouth… Your post is basically “there should not be any civs better than others at defending in Feudal or at least they should be all easy to kill with all ins”…
You know that archers have a higher movement speed that longbows, and you play ottomans on top meaning your archers move like crazy.
Feudal MAA aren’t that strong + if for some reason you went AOE heal you can heal their damage. Also MAA can’t catch up to your archers and if they decide to play backline defending the longbows 1) your archers can free hit the longbows while the longbow hit horses or take damage from them otherwise 2) you can get some damage with horses before the MAA gets near the longbows. In any case both your horsemen and archers can avoid MAA altogether if needed.
Their spearman can move back. And their MAA will already be all over your own archers
Not true MAA are slow + what you said means your horsemen are on top of their longbows. And again assuming you are playing Ottomans, there is no way the English has more units than you.You can test in the map editor if you want, just make any composition of all available units in age 2, equal resources, lets say one player is Ottoman, and one player is English.
English MAA + Longbow + Spear
will definitely win against any army composition that cost the same against other civs.
What map editor, you and your English opponents have different economies among other things. And even then MAA will be not very effective vs archers + horsemen. And longbow + spearmen will lose to pure archer spam from ottomans as the spearmen will be useless and the ottoman will have more units even if the English only makes longbows. And there is Mehter buff on top of that.
There’s no balance problem; all civs are balanced around being “OP” in some regard at some stage of the game. Your imbalance assumption can be generalized to every single civ with the only solution being to make all civs the same civ.
A defensive civ with a feudal advantage in army unit strength doesn’t make any sense. There’s no way of leveraging an army defensively if you haven’t already boomed. You leverage an army advantage by dealing damage. The longbowmen works as intended.
Perceived imbalance is a common when you lack concepts to describe why you’re losing. The most common culprit is accumulating mistakes giving the enemy a lead. By the time the lead manifests, whatever the enemy happens to kill you with seems OP, while the thing you lost to had nothing to do with it at all. Be careful never to assume imbalance.
As far as killing english in feudal is concerned, you don’t kill english in feudal. It’s near impossible. Their TC’s are too strong to rampush, and their longbowmen can nibble off at your units in a fortified position. NOTE that this is not enough to give them an advantage, that’s why they often attack. You don’t survive to win a game, you win game by grabbing leads.
You want to get out of feudal with an advantage. Either by repelling their army with a decisive strike or by surviving with better econ. Longbows are slow and benefit from brief clashes. If they ever get jumped at a single moment of army size disadvantage, they lose it all. You want to cater to this, and this weakness of theirs gets even worse vs a mehter speed aura.
Under absolutely no circumstances do you want to fight an English army before you’re ready to annihilate them. A tower can buy you some stalling time as you mass up. If they manage to push through and threaten your eco before you’re ready, forcing you to engage, you made some strategical error prior. If they hit age 3, it means there was a moment when you had 1800 more resources worth of army and could’ve wiped them but missed the opportunity. What’s scary about english is if they retreat while aging up. You need to be ready for this so you can do eco damage if they attempt it.
Pure Horsemen/Sipahi with upgrades do well against MAA/longbow. MAA don’t hard counter them, and horsemen hardcounters longbowmen more than MAA soft counters horsemen. Mehters even make your Sipahi quasi- MAA, the strength of their auras is so great it might get nerfed. If they add spears, you want archers. Then it’s a micro battle. The free sheeps can keep your food econ safe and on par with english farms for most of feudal, but without the farm investment even.
With your army comp having cavalry, you can force the english to leave army back home to be safe, forcing them to fight with a smaller army. You can also kill reinforcements crossing the map before the big main engage. It comes down to execution. In these scenarios there are a million of factors to improve and iterate upon. If you’re lacking direction, watching pro games, or swapping civ to english are all great ways of finding the details useful for dealing with early game aggression of any kind.
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You usually dont want to fight in feudal against English.
Problem is at least in season 3 you could beat them in castle, but now with all the buffs rhey are just good in every age.
I know a lot of reply telling me “it’s possible if you micro well etc…”.
But my concern is that currently, Im like between gold-platinum, and whenever I play against english, i know im losing like 80% of the time, whenever I play against any other civ, I know i’ll probably win 70%. So it’s a bit discouraging.
They often just build right next to my base and it’s really hard to kill their longbow + spear since my archers get crushed and even my horseman. And then they build tons of towers, rams… and just slowly destroy my base with their increased range. I always feel forced to go castle while they boom their eco…
This should not be the case. You should be able to outmass your english opponent with military schools and your archers are cheaper. Make sure you are focusing their spears first then longbows. once the spears are gone the MAA either have to chase your sipahi or the sipahi will wreck the LBs. MAA are tanks so leave them for last and once it’s only MAA left you can just kite them all day. Make sure you get ranged defense and attack upgrades before taking on english longbows. Not getting those BS upgrades is a sure fire way to lose horribly.
If you have good APM, after you attack move your sipahi you can grab one at a time and target individual longbows. Thats the most effective way and will help avoid them attacking MAA.
Another good tip is to be patient and never force a battle that you will lose. Make sure you have the bigger army before attacking otherwise just bide time. It also sounds like you need to scout better to avoid english getting a proxy base on you.
I do agree that trying to take english out in Fuedal is extremely frustrating and I am so tired of playing english every other game as well. It’s extremely difficult to take out english when they have longbows, network of castles, gatling gun TCs, cheaper farms, and now a buffed white tower landmark that doubles as a keep + 2 production buildings. They get to castle and basically have 4 production buildings for free and a keep.
Also if they get the proxy base down send some sipahi around to their base to harrass their eco. If you can get away with it (i.e. you have enough safe resources), even consider taking your whole army around to their base. maybe leave a few archers to defend. But their army is slow and if their production buildings are far away they will struggle to defend their base.
people are writing you dont want to fight english at feudal,defensive civ dont need a army advantage something something but they are getting the map control and you cant gather gold if they even manage to kill 1 of your vills its game over.Man at arms at feudal and making units 2 times fast from landmark feels preaty unfair and very frustrating deal with they should do this atleast:
no civ should get units from landmark thats such a huge advantage at early and it escalates until the end of the game if you guys know tactics to deal with this im listening
that means you lost the map control and cant gather gold.Even if you dont fight with english they are not standing there they are improving with you and when they made rams protected with mass longbows gg to you
I agree english are too strong, but i dont agree they should add new units just to counter english. It doesn’t make sense. The horseman already fills the roll of anti-archer, so either they need be stronger, or longbow less strong.
Maceman would absolutely get crushed by longbows so it wouldnt solve the problem at all and only complicate the game.
I think if the game needs balancing then MAA need less armor in age 2, and longbow a small nerf. Or at least a nerf to the build speed of that english landmark. That would be enough without adding so much complexity to the game just because english exists. Because all the other civs are fine. Even knights in age 2 arent that bad.
horseman cant keep up with council hall production speed and even if there is just 1 spearman in those archer mass gg horseman so weaker version of malian javelin is necessary.Maceman(weaker version of musafadi) needed too to counter burgrave landmark because you cant keep up with it so easly its nearly game over if you cant age up fast enough and build atleast 4 archery range.Early man at arms definetly need a armor nerf its such a huge advantage against civs(ones without a defensive landmark) lacks them.
I know but maceman wouldnt either… My point is not that english are fine, my point is that a new unity is not the correct solution, nerfing english is. Horsemen are already “supposed” to counter archers
If you want we can try 1v1s in the afternoon I take Ottos who I only played once this way I practice them and you take English to show me how op they are and I try different styles/Builds like feudal aggro 2 TC Castle rush etc. What do you think?
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Just patience and keep going. For me one of the hardest civs to beat are ottos and malians using abbasids. And I wouldn’t say they are OP.
If you are talking to me give me your game name
they need changes too
Originally I wanted to respond to OP (I don’t know what happened I was using phone). But we can play together if you want. I PM you to avoid being spammed.
Started playing french instead and i have 0 issue against english.
I think it’s just with Ottoman, the MAA are really really hard to counter, I see a lot of mass MAA against me when playing Ottoman and it’s quite hard to counter in age 2 or early age 3. With french its not because the knight crush both longbow and MAA.
Sure they can make spears but then it becomes a true counter/micro game with a counter for each unit, unlike otto vs english which is just unfair in age 2 from the units available.
You cant. We always win
except that english don’t have an age 2 burgrave not to mention early maa have less armor. If he spams MAA then he won’t have archers then you can mass archers which can deal with early MAA (as long as you got a lot of them) you kite and kill MAA one by one. IF he doesn’t spam the few MAA he is got won’t be a big deal either. Probably you got a combination of macro/micro issues. If ottomans feel hard to play to you and you don’t want a harder civ play English yourself. Otherwise just get better problem solved. Saying you have 10% win rate against English because they are OP is nonsense.
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