How to make the native semi-civ more useful?

I think two main problems are that a lot of native posts are hard to defend because of their spawn and that many natives are pretty useless for the investment. In addition, I think more card upgrades should affect them, like for example the Asian civs’.

There are a couple of ways to bypass that:

  1. having a new window just like age of empires 2 (which wouldn’t hurt the game because our buildings UI is cluttered due full grid).

  2. Move embassy to a wagon/travois unit. Which also would be ok since all Euro and Asian civs get access to it AFTER having a Native trading post. For all purposes Embassies would be available from Town centers and Native posts.

I’m still by the side that having cheaper trading post for settlements is a key for balancing minor natives. It would still count as a TP and would make room to improve politicians.

I personally think that it would be rather confusing for new players and on certain circumstances because it’s a random “give back” for no reason at all.

If you get half back than you shouldn’t be displaying full price to start with: We are actually making something more complex than what should be in my opinion. There more simple ways to solve that.

An additional technology would make them more useful because the sum of upgrades gets bigger.

The other suggestion I made is giving all civilisations something that is equivalent to a 0.5/second influence trickle.
I like the idea of a free villager at the Community Plaza for the Natives and Export Trickle also seems a good idea but just XP for Europeans doesn’t seem to be a good idea.

How about the opposite.
Every civilisation has a unit that can be trained at Native TPs making it a more reasonable investment in the second Age to build one because you might not need the Barracks or Stable.

Would be nice if the upgrades would also increase the train limit.
Maybe by the same percentage they increase their strength by.

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Sounds good but this only really works if you have such a trade post near your starting position, otherwise it may simply take too long for your units to get where they need to be, and would not make up for wasting a barracks.

We could surely have both allowing units at rax/stables and giving civs a unique unit at the trade post.

IMO those upgrades should shadow tech for all civs, not just the affricans.
The investments are already ridiculously large: you need 200w to build the TP in the middle of nowhere, then you need some more sources to get the units up to date. There should really be a bigger benefit to those natives.

I do not understand how the forums that contribute ideas have less likes than those that criticize. They are very visited, but they should have at least 100 likes.


There are many native peoples that only have one type of unit available. Some kind of more unit could be added in those towns. For example, the Mapuche did not have cavalry in the base game. You could add 2 or 3 different types of unit in each town, for example the Zapotecs and the Mayans could have an archer or shock infantry unit.

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all aztec ranged units are archers too. Macehualtin, eagle runners and arrow knights, then cav archers, some mercenaries (manchu and iron troops for instance) . you actually picked one of the best native upgrades to showcase as an example of a bad one, unfortunately. Only dutch and india don’t have any archer units at all iirc. I will have to check african civs too but i think javelin riders and some of the infantry units are archers too

it also works for archer cavalry, like russian tartar horsemen.

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You forgot one, only Dutch, India and US don’t have archers.

Trade with native populations in the old style of previous games. A cart that goes from the market to the native villages and vice versa.

Other ways to improve the alliance with the natives would be:

The natives who use firearms or metallic weapons such as spears, swords or pikes would cost gold instead of wood.

If the natives with whom you are allied use firearms, but your civilization does not use firearms or have access to the arsenal, then in that town some improvements will appear associated with those that would be in an arsenal.

The capitol upgrade ‘Deforestation’ makes wood in the markets much cheaper, and the trading posts give you much more wood. Useful to be able to create natives that would continue to consist of wood if many of them cost gold.

The upgrade ‘legendary native warriors’ increases the native embassy limit by +1 and natives are created faster. (In addition to your current benefits).

That in particular isn’t a bad idea really. The only issue I see is Native Warriors are already strong in the early game and the late game. If natives need a major buff anywhere, it’s in the midgame.

En mi opinión los nativos podrían tener su propia IA y producción de recursos.

Tendría que costar alimento y oro por segundo, si no pagamos el puesto comercial se destruye, Las mejoras nativas las tenemos que pagar nosotros para aumentar la eficacia de sus ataques, Solo podría haber un asentamiento de nativos por mapa pero mas grande y tendría acceso a mas unidades.

De esta manera los nativos seria una facción Independiente a la cual aliarnos.

Espero que les guste la idea. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I actually like it, but not in this context. AI would not do the things you would expect it to do.

For campaigns or things like that, yes.

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La idea es que la IA junte unidades y ataque al oponente, nosotros podríamos ver que hace la IA (porque somos sus aliados) y ayudarla o aprovechar la distracción.

No hará lo que queramos pero nos ayuda debilitando a nuestro enemigo, una forma de darle ordenes seria que la IA siempre mueva las unidades donde este la bandera de reclutamiento


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It could be a new game mode. In that case the natives would be free and there would be a fever to control the TP. Similar to RISK maps.


Dado que solo debería haber un puesto de nativos con mayor población supongo que un modo de juego nuevo no es una mala idea.

Próximamente DOTA pero con nativos :laughing:

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Una opción para hacer a los nativos rentables de inmediato, podrían producir aldeanos mas baratos que los del jugador o que recolecten mas rápido los recursos naturales.

10 aldeanos por aliado nativo y quizás que puedan construir algunas estructuras nativas (casas y cuarteles).

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You could use the Native Embassy building on minor civs instead of a trading post and not have to add anything new

The Native Lore card could have the additional effect of swapping their wood cost for gold. And the Mohawk Statesman politician could grant the same effect.