How to make the native semi-civ more useful?

Hello.

I think the semi-civ make this game charming, but when I watch the games, I find that most of the time people never construct the TP and use them.

In the early game, their costs may be too heavy. In the late game, their units are worse than the own army. I had considered giving free upgrading to help them, but now it becomes the unique bonus of the African civs.

As title, how to do it?

  1. Native TP could generate EXP, similar to a church.
  2. Native TP could automatically, slowly spawn the units, similar to a dojo or Summer Palace.
    (Still allow pay the cost, training them in the regular way.)
  3. Make their units and techs cost cheaper, training/researching faster.
  4. Any idea else?

Sincerely.

14 Likes

I vote for number 2, it would also be nice that the native units, do not have to upgrade, upgrading for free when passing age (up to age iv) making it a more profitable unit.

8 Likes

Drop the cost of the TP. Easy solution to the actual problem - i.e. the high cost of the TP.

1 Like
  • Native units don’t cost pop.
  • There are cards that enable all the upgrades.
  • native settlements are more of a map feature you usually get them for the economic upgrades or the shipments.

That being said there are natives are I find to be near useless like the nootka.

Actually it became cheaper when DE was released. (250 → 200)
Now the card can make it down to even 120.

I don’t deny these benefits.
But as I stated, the problem is still there. People seldom, or even never use it in the match.

Livestock had the similar problem in the past, now it becomes a specially strategy with 7 sheep card or on the particular map. Natives also need some helps in my opinion.

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I think the issue is reliability and type of cost

TYPE OF COST
Most good native units cost food and wood which is terrible since in most cases you are macroing for food-gold.

This is a clear disadvantage in relation to own units.

RELIABILITY

Tps are far away from the base, and if you lose the alliance and have a strat base on native, you are hit way harder than if you did not ally. Also, there are unit limits (which forces you to Also make your own units) and their stats are not the Best in most cases.

Also, most native civs only have One unit, which makes barracks or stable a better option in army composition, for the same price as a TP

Yeah. Shall we allow native units cost gold? May its wood cost have some reasons and meanings?
For the 2nd one I stated, TP can automatically, slowly spawn the units, then you will accept its warriors free by the time and only need to afford the cost of TP.

Even if the native settler is located just behind and very close to the base, it sill does not be used. How to deal with it?

I think they have a similar problem with (most) tavern/saloon mercs and (most) outlaws. Most of them are either random or map-dependent, and people would not really develop any meta on those uncertain conditions. That’s why most mercs and natives are still sent by home city cards not trained, except very few maps like Andes with Incas.
So I can’t really think of a good way to make anything like that more useful. Maybe that’s more for fun and casual gameplay. Or maybe make them equally exceptionally good like some new African natives which give you an additional hero or sth.

The Native units have to be weak because they cost 0 pop. That lone makes them super strong if they could match stats with normal units.

Granted, making them as strong as a normal unit would be almost enough reason on its own to start contesting them, but as it stands, they’re not sought after because they’re weak.

This is actually a great idea. It would definitely make the game more interesting. And it’s a good reward as well for controlling the natives

Map-dependent is fine in my opinion.
If the player can sure which outlaws and natives will be there, it could still develop a meta possibly, such like Mongolia livestock pen.

To be honest, I do not support random mercenary. The civ should have be able to hire the mercenary who with partnerships. It a shame that French could not hire Swiss pikemen, Japanese could not hire Ninja, British could not hire Highlander if the player do not ship them from the home.

It could be weak but it should be cheap because of its weak.
The cost is too high.

1 Like

I think the first TP of each native alliance should have a 1-time free batch of units that spawns automatically after 2 or 3 minutes, worth 500-600 res. If you get the TP before the auto-batch units are available (i.e. you’re in age 1), the auto-batch queues as soon as those units are available.

This would turn the TP’s original cost into a worthwhile investment. Plus, since you can always see when your opponent has built a native TP, the free-batch would be contestable which promotes player interaction. Since it’s a one-time batch, the native TP doesn’t directly bolster your economy, which keeps it distinct from TPs on the trade-route.

IMO this is the best way to make native TP’s viable, interesting, and popular.

2 Likes

Certain natives would have less units than a batch though right? For example the Sufi wouldn’t get 5 war elephants?

Maybe 25% of their construct limit. Actually it is how Native Treaties works.

2 Likes

Well, not all of them are so useless. The conquerors, the Apaches are good against cav. And those with firearms are generally good soldiers, as Cree, Cherokee, and Navajo are good against Musketeers.

My proposal would be that by allying with them in addition to the available improvements, they will also grant passive improvements as some type of bonus while the trading post is standing.

For example: If I build a trading post in a Jesuit village, my villagers are created faster just with the tp built, (in addition to the upgrade).

If I ally myself with Cree he gives me 2 Cree villagers and my buildings are slightly cheaper.

(Things like that)

It is one of the mechanics that I like the most in the game and I usually use them a lot for quick attacks, but if they go wrong you are dead.

It would be nice if they gave a drip of experience or any resource as you wrote it.

2 Likes

I know. I think they are useless not because they are strong or not but you have to pay a lot of resource for making them trainable.

Not a bad idea.
But I will worry about how to balance that and players have more things to remember.
Some natives improvement would be powerful and some would be unimportant.
I stated the 1st suggestion that TP generate EXP. Simple and useful.

2 Likes

Well, early in the game, wood is scarce and players could choose between trading posts on the route or trading posts in a native village. In addition, it would not be unbalanced because, in general, both have the same access to commercial ports of all kinds (Native or road).

Many of them are NOT weak, and they cost no pop, but the better they are the lower the build limit.

But the numbers you can make of them can limit you.

Vut since you don’t need to speed wood on housing you can get a fair number of native warriors easily

Native Warriors aren meant to be auxilaries

1 Like

I like the idea of #2, would make more civ viable playing nats for treaty

**I love the idea of making native positions more influential but later it will be me and surely many more who will be complaining about how OP it is **