How to move on from V&V

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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First, they read what they purchased. It’s just that the description was a blatant lie. That isn’t their fault.

Second, being angry about being lied to is hardly a trait of manchildren. Any reasonable person would be angry about false advertising. Calling victims of false advertising “illiterate” for not knowing they were being lied to when they had no way of knowing is disingenuous at best and utterly tone-deaf at worst.

Third, leaving bad reviews for an objectively bad product is hardly review bombing. People are allowed to hate on a product, especially if it deserves it.

In short, it isn’t them who has lost the plot.

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Actually what I think they are referring to is a bunch of the negative reviews that are complaining that they bought the DLC and there were no new civs in it. Those people genuinely didn’t read.

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The description is entirely accurate. I’d ask you to point out any “lies” by quoting the store description and then documenting that it is in fact not true, but it’s pointless, as you’ll never even attempt to actual back up the libel you’re spouting.

Being unable to differentiate between subjective and objective is pretty common these days, but this is truly an outrageous case. If it was “objectively a bad product”, it’d be broken and nonfunctional. That’s not the case. Look at something like LoTR: Gollum, Forspoken, Redfall, etc. Those are objectively bad as they fail to deliver on everything promised and are technically non-functional.

A DLC isn’t objectively bad because you had access to the scenarios as free mods previously (and still do after release), which was stated clearly in the description.
You can argue that it’s too expensive for 5 new scenarios and a bit of patching+ voice acting, which is a legitimate argument, the solution to that is quite simple. Don’t buy it, wait for a sale. Crying because you didn’t bother reading what was included and leaving negative reviews, ensuring that AoE2s future as a game is now in question, is quite clearly not an even remotely rational reaction.

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The expansion was advertised as revolving around campaigns, but there is not a single campaign in sight, only unconnected scenarios. This is misleading and pretty blatant false advertising, whether intentional or not. It’s a lie, therefore my claim is not libel. Be careful how you toss around those words.

It is very much broken and nonfunctional, because the scenarios are full of bugs. A preliminary look at the forum discourse around the expansion will reveal what you’re saying to be untruthful.

Why are you going to bat for a company that disregards the wishes and desires of its fans, and attacking the fans themselves for being outraged by lazy content?

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Imagine accusing others of lying, and then coming out with this absurd howler of a lie, that is so easy for others to verify is a lie.

The expansion was advertised as revolving around campaigns, but there is not a single campaign in sight, only unconnected scenarios. This is misleading and pretty blatant false advertising, whether intentional or not. It’s a lie, therefore my claim is not libel. Be careful how you toss around those words.

Here is the description for V&V:

Embark on a thrilling journey with “Victors and Vanquished”! In nineteen epic scenarios, play as Ragnar Lothbrok, Oda Nobunaga, Charlemagne, and more. Your strategy and choices decide your fate: will you emerge as the ultimate victor, or fall as the vanquished? Secure your pre-order now and be prepared to conquer the battlefield!

Victors and Vanquished features nineteen scenarios including:

You’re straight up committing libel. If you were even half as careful with your own words as you demand from others, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

It is very much broken and nonfunctional, because the scenarios are full of bugs. A preliminary look at the forum discourse around the expansion will reveal what you’re saying to be untruthful.

It absolutely isn’t, as there are veeeery few bugs in them, far fewer than any of the mod versions ever had, in fact. (They were all notoriously buggy upon release.) I’ve spent a lot of time diving into the scenarios so far and watching content creators play through them, and have yet to encounter any bugs. 20$ says the people in the forums are diving into the old known bugs lists and trying to reproduce every single one, with the ones still existing are ones people not explicitly attempting to recreate the bug will ever encounter.
This forums discourse has gotten so toxic, that any average consumer will stay the fuck away, which is why people like you feel the liberty to spread blatant lies, assuming you won’t be called out on it.

Why are you going to bat for a company that disregards the wishes and desires of its fans, and attacking the fans themselves for being outraged by lazy content?

I’m not “defending the company”, I’m pointing out that you and the army of angry man children are spouting utter nonsense.
It’s absolutely fine to be disappointed by the amount of new content vs the price, and refraining from buying it. What’s not fine is making up lies and ######## up the entire discourse around AoE2 for months because you didn’t get a new OP civ to p2w your way to free elo.

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I’m not talking about the description. I’m talking about how they teased the expansion months ago. They got everyone hyped up for new campaigns, but then when the expansion came out, it was just a series of scenarios that already existed. Only a few were brand new, and even they were low-quality. The fanbase is right to be mad.

I’m not committing libel, as none of what I’m saying is untrue.

You should spend more time on the forums, because that is hardly the case. Tons of people who bought it have reported many of the same bugs as the ones that were present in the free versions.

No, there are no lies being spread about the situation except the ones you’re telling. And I’m calling you out on them.

We are not manchildren and we are not spouting nonsense. But at least one of those things applies to you.

Again, we aren’t making up lies. You are.

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I’m not talking about the description. I’m talking about how they teased the expansion months ago. They got everyone hyped up for new campaigns, but then when the expansion came out, it was just a series of scenarios that already existed. Only a few were brand new, and even they were low-quality. The fanbase is right to be mad.

Ah finally we’re getting somewhere. So the case of “false advertisement” isn’t actually any advertisement or product description, it’s you misunderstanding a teaser. Which of course, does not in any way shape or form constitute false advertisement. Great to have cleared that up, and gotten to the point where you admit that there was no lying by the Devs.

You should spend more time on the forums, because that is hardly the case. Tons of people who bought it have reported many of the same bugs as the ones that were present in the free versions

So once again, you admit that exactly what I said is true. Extremely obscure known bugs that aren’t reproducible through normal play exist, (and are likely impossible to fix, given the state of AoE2s older spaghetti code core) yet you’ll never encounter them if you don’t follow the step by step guide on how to produce the bug. And you claim that constitutes a technically broken product?
Genuinely hilarious statement, and just shows you need to go outside your aoe bubble and play some newly released games. You’ll quickly learn what an actually unplayable game means. Hell, even going back to the last patches pathing and trying to play archers only would help.

No, there are no lies being spread about the situation except the ones you’re telling. And I’m calling you out on them.

Except the ones above where you’ve straight up admitted I’m correct in every assertion, yet retort with “no you” and think that can be considered a legitimate argument.

Get a grip. It was repeatedly stated exactly what the dlc would provide, anyone complaining straight up didn’t read what they’d get.

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Wow seems the dlc does find its target audience. Many examples have emerged in the past few days.

Good market research World’s Edge. Hope you do more.

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That is not what I said. You are intentionally misinterpreting my words to suit your own argument.

I have admitted no such thing, and that is because you are wrong. If you actually read what I said, you would know that.

If people bought the DLC and were still dissatisfied by its quality, they’re entitled to complain. You are not entitled to insult a paying customer who hates the product they bought. That’s straight-up bullying and intimidation.

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Like I said before, if they could make mememods/lolmods for these events, they could have at least added a damn mounted samurai or scenario editor assets.

Ngl it was really dumb of me to buy the Roman DLC for that damn castle.

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Are you actually claiming that FE/Microsoft has insulted or bullied unsatisfied customers?

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Not Microsoft, but the person I’m responding to.

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I wonder if makers of Pong got a lot of heat back in the day when customers found out the game they bought was comprised of only a handful of pixels and no colors? Imagine a time where games were probably like $1 per pixel :sweat_smile:

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I remember Indian DLC and poles/bohemian DLC are cheaper than this even you factor in inflation. But when you factor in content, this DLC isnt cheap at all. Even the bugs aren’t original, by what mean the DLC has good quality? It simply show lack of effort.

And aoe2 is for global market. 13 euros is more expensive than a meal in many places. The comparison is flawed.

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So I was watching GLs town center podcast and they brought up V&V and while they did acknowledge the “campaign” debacle and the price, they basically chalked up the criticism to illiteracy.

Feels soooooo good being thrown under the bus to protect poor defenseless MS. If you don’t like V&V I guess you’re just too dumb.

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Who or what is GL? GamerLegion, maybe? (Tried a quick Google search)

Are they official MS devs or employees? Doesn’t sound like it(?). So, if not, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Everyone has opinions. Did they really use divisive and condescending terms? An actual quote and/or link to the podcast with time stamp would help us diagnose how inflammatory the wording actually was. But, again, if it’s not MS, then it’s just like (akin to) another forum user… maybe a more popular one… so take it with a grain of salt. I think vast majority of people wouldn’t land on illiteracy as the reason

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This is taken directly from a official post in the official page announcing the New Year New Age event. It literally says the word “campaign”.

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@Darkness01101 yes, sorry about the ambiguity. GL, GamerLegion, team of Viper, Daut, TaToH and now Hera.

It definitely seemed dismissive. Not full on condescending tho. Yeah it’s not official, but being such a big voice in the community I’d have hoped for a response not so dismissive, but alas. Aoe2 pays the bills so gotta tow the party line (specifically the excess criticism is due to illiteracy not a worse product) I guess.

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I actually confronted them about it in a YouTube comment, and they told me that they were criticizing the people who bought the DLC and then complained about the content, not everyone who disliked it.

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I actually commented too, and they gave some similar response, but if you read the (edit i’d originally said comments…didn’t mean to…mea culpa) steam reviews, there are lots of people who said some flavor of “so I actually tried the scenarios, didn’t like them, no new art, etc,etc.” Things that you couldn’t have read the desc and known.

It came off as those who read the description should have known these things, but these things couldn’t have been known before hand, therefore it’s dismissive and a strawman.

“I understand why people say the price tag is high as well because a lot of these scenarios aren’t new they already existed previously as a 14 of them yeah yeah as a mod and downloadable in the for free so to say right so I understand why people can argue also argue that oh the price pack price tag is too high with that in mind and yeah but otherwise like I agree with you like the the wording and how they presented DLC it was very clear what it was going to be so the people that complain about it after buying it it makes no sense it’s like if you don’t want this that it clearly says learn to read.”

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