As a lot of influencers of aoe4 and general community feedback, people discovered that abbasid eco wing is brokenly OP.
What is your opinion?
The stats don’t show them to be too strong so leave them as they are unless win rate climbs higher.
when Abbasid goes for Eco Wing, it will make a 2TC. and when you all-in immediately, it is very likely you can destroy the 2nd TC. It takes a long time for a TC to payoff.
Marinelord went 3 tc on red bull grand final against Puppypaw zhuge nu rush. Puppypaw didn’t manage to take down even a single tc. This is how broken the eco wing is.
I just watched Beasty’s cast of that game. Puppypaw made a lot of mistakes: (as pointed out/implied by Beasty)
And perhaps PP may delay the initial attack a bit until getting P damage/armor upgrades. I believe in their level, making mistakes like that is unforgivable. ML has God level defensive skills.
Well since you watch beasty, I assume you must know how he complained about Abbasid Eco wing for 20 minutes in his last video about civ tier list?
Abasi can abuse going 3 TC and win the game with a monstrous economy, he can even easily defend against ram pushes
lol. yes, I watched that 20 mins. His opinion matters.
However, Abbasid 3TC works only because the opponent made mistakes, or the Abbasid guy is an exceptional player like ML. I believe most civs can take down a blindly 3TC Abbasid by all-in. The EGC final game ain’t a good proof to show Abbasid Eco Wing is OP.
IMHO, 3TC can be “easily defended” is BS.
I agree 3 tc build is not easy to defend against feudal all-in. However, your initial point was that even the 2 tc build would be destroyed by the all-in tactic, and I can hardly agree on that. With the Eco wing 35% discount, building the second tc doesn’t really cost that much for Abbasid, and Marinelord would have a higher chance to hold Puppypaw’s offenses with a standard 2 tc build even if Puppypaw didn’t make those mistakes.
The timing of English 2nd TC is more or less the same as Abbasid 2nd TC, plus a king riding around, and English 2nd TC is way harder to break than the Abbasid 2nd TC. English farm is even cheaper. So nerf English altogether?
Well, English 2TC Build Order will receive a minor nerf. 5% less food from farms (horticulture) and 2X time to build walls. It is an small nerf, I know, but it is something. Abbasid get 15% more resources with just 10 buildings, that is pretty easy to reach. In that order, is like getting all feudal technologies without spending resources. I feel they are pretty even.
It is true English 2nd TC is harder to break, but Abbasid Economy allows them to have more units to defend when you finally made Rams. I really feel it is an strong strategy. The only way I found to beat 3 TC with french is to go 2 TC myself with all economic technologies and then All in 1 of the TCs.
Counter arguments:
A) MARINELORD
B) puppypaw
C) The PUP did feature another berry nerf didn’t it? There’s ur anti boom.
Agree to disagree. In the past when a TC can garrission 10 villagers, it is even harder for French to kill Abbasid. And Abbasid players did Eco Wing 3TC since the very beginning I believe, no matter the FC bonus is 30 or 35%.
I think the only problem with the Eco Wing buff (and together with trade wing nerf) is that it harms the diversity of Abbasid playstyle. But not “eco wing is OP”. Maybe buffing culture wing to make it a viable option in more scenarios would be good.
There are many things OP in AoE4, feudal MAA, HRE, HRE MAA etc. Abbasid Eco is definitely not unbreakable.
The timing might be similar but the second tc is full price for english.
Is not unbreakable, I know, I have won against that, and there are a lot of OP things here, but Abassid 2-3 TC is a bit higher than anything else. Even beastyqt puts them as the best Civ right now. There must be a reason to that, not only our impressions. Beastyqt know things, and he loves making a lot of TCs and defending. I still think that it must be nerfed a bit, but still be useful
Yeah. Maybe casual players are not that good at booming or at defending so they think abbasid is fine. But beasty definitely represents an important opinion when it comes to higher league and the game with puppypaw and marinelord speaks out the balance and showed how hard was it to punish.
Is there any high league member (conq+ let’s say) who disagrees on nerfing abbasid?
They get cheaper and faster 2TC than anyone else, cheaper villagers and 15% more resources without spending gold. They are so strong. Even when you get your blacksmith+Siege engineers, they have far more villares, a good economy and enough army. Something must be nerfed
Abbasid 3 Tc is not an issue below conq2-3, IMO. Having said that not all civs can mount a proper feudal all in or FC to compete with Abbasid 3tc.
Feudal all in potential civs: Delhi, Mongols*(doesnt need to all in), JD, OotD, Eng, china, Juicy
FC civs with a chance IMO: Rus, Japanese, HRE, Ayuubids.
If there are this many civs that could contend with abbasid 3 tc on open land maps, then devs might not nerf?
My personal issue with the strat is how much they can camp with those cheap farms.
3 tc is suicide vs Feudal full aggression, learn to play
i dont even play abbasid, i main english
its like the easiest matchup for me
I still don’t understand why anyone would use a single tournament final game as an argument to say the game should nerf or buff something. And also not to say the losing side made a number of mistakes pointed out by another pro.
