I am shocked about our community outside of this forum

Off-Topic Forum
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I orginally never was a big forum guy never really was active and this forum here was one of the first and still is one of the only where i am “relatively” frequently active.

I experiences this forum here full of mature, intellegent ppl who can argue but accept differences and most think about different points of views. i sometimes see sarcasm (me sometimes included) and nothing rude or mean or too generalising.

Then i look at forums like reddit. I am shocked how ppl adress you, ciriticse you without being constructive at all and nitpick over everything without even reasonable arguments.

i know the internet is a wild place full of crazy ppl who full of specific groups one louder than the other. i know this happens in other gaming communities the more mainstream it gets especially.

but i am truly and honestly shocked this happens to our community and the community of this game here which stands over 20 years tall with a trustworthy creative community.

I know AI is debatable and its as good as it is bad (as basically everything especially the internet in general…)

But i was euphoric and posted my AI-artversion of Demeter on reddit cause it got positive feedback here and i was not only certain even its AI its definitely better than the portrait pic me saw for Demeter but also curious what constructive critcism i would get there since ppl are a bit mroe active there.
And since i heard the devs are more active there too - and i am not sure if they are active here beside moderating of course (which is important for sure).

Anyway. Now about 7/10 ppl tried to sh*ttalk me there. Call me names i didn’t even knew they existed. Started to nitpick about things without being able to keep things apart, differentiate and being be more objective.

Its one thing to hate AI art (which i partly can understand but for example we still don’t know if the game uses AI art and i don’t see a problem cause nearly every company uses AI art nowadays to some extend and its nothing bad at all in my opinion.
Also there is SUCH A DIFFERENCE between creating a pervy/vulgar image and being tastefully sexy or simply more pretty. Ppl who cannot put these things apart have serious issues in my opinion.
Also the doublestandards of these ppl its okay that Zeus, Poseidon and Hades show their upper bodies but if i itentionaly NOT show the upper body of Demeter but just a tiny bit of leg to balance things out (and adding glowing eyes which - if you like it or not - every major god in his portrait has -) i get the - and i am really sorry to write this - the stupiest most ragebait comments i have every experienced personally.
Which not only gives me currently immense headaches but also makes me concerned cause i didn’t think this specific crowd of rude, loud, ignorant and extremely generalising ppl who yet are not able to look at things objectively and not able to include other things into their equation, are part of our community now too.
And yes i am currently shocked and thats why i created and started to write things down.

Feel free to critise me but in a constructive way please cause i always try to do this too.

And feel free to let me know you some of you had similar experiences.

I don’t want to waste my time with the comments of such ppl but i really need to process these things and i now know why i am not a content creator. I would put every bit of my free-time into arguing with those… i honestly lack words to give those ppl a proper adjective…

To everyone reading this: have a good weekend and a harmonious 4th Advent.

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I saw your illustration and it looks great. I don’t know if you used any editing software, but you did a good job. . If I had to give one piece of critique, it would be to try to keep the face and eyes from the original portrait, or maybe make some small changes by overlaying both images with different transparencies. Regardless, the illustration is very well-crafted.

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Yea, AI art is a heated topic nowadays it seems. Sad people move on to insult. Theres sides to everything and sadly people that tinker with it pay for those that missuse it or how it takes advantage of artist. At least you found a space where its better recieved.

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AI art is basically stealing other people’s work and workplaces, at a huge cost to our environment. So yes, there’s a lot of bad things about using it in games, and Microsoft has been going so all in on AI that its products are barely recognizable anymore.

I can reason using AI for searching large volumes of data or stuff like that, but for art is is a no go.

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thank you kindly for the feedback. i tried to change it a bit in the other thread to your recommendation. thanks for also the positive feedback. i honestly am positively surprised.

thanks also to you for your feedback. (honestly i didn’t even think ppl would respond even i value this forum very much.) i appreciate your objective and reflective point of vew and thanks for your empathy. you are right its a heated topic i am just shocked its THAT heated. yeah i am glad i am here.

thanks for sharing your personal point of view. outside of tweaking offical art by AoMR and trying to make some suggestions (like e.g. Argus redesign i made months ago) i don’t use AI art. and i can understand your problem with it. but i think there are things to differentiate cause:

  • i put the refering image i tweaked with my post so i didn’t claim its mine. i also didn’t share it elsewhere outside of AoM forums - never did this.
  • i just use this tool to make quick - in my opinion - appropriate fixes/tweaks or sharing new ideas/overhauls to make the game - in my personal opinion - to some extend (even its “just visually” better. thats a bonus for the game and potentially all and not just for a single guy like me.

the funny (and pretty damn ridiculous) thing is:

  • the persons who were rude primarily weren’t even rude cause of AI (this was JUST a side argument), they - and i am not joking at all - were rude to me and downvoted the post primarily cause i made her face prettier and let her show a bit of leg! (i honestly can’t decide to get angry about this kind of thoughtprocess or laugh about it in frustration.)
    (some honestly compared her to aphrodite and i would make her too sensual which only aphrodite deserves… and showing a bit of leg is - in their worldview (or whatever this is) a perversion which needs to get exterminated. i am a “gooner” whatever this is i didn’t google it yet but i just assume its something rude. and they totally and completely ignore the facts that:
  • divines are often more depicted as pretty
  • there were very often sexual or sensual hints (some just changed over the many many years)
  • showing a bit of leg or making her more pretty is NOT perversion or vulgar… (that i even have to write this is beyond me)
  • all greek major gods show their chest - this would be sexualisation and perversion too then by that “logic”. and i didn’t make her barchested to put her more in line with the male major gods (THAT would be unnecessary and not appropriate) but i gave her glowing eyes to bring her more in line with the other major gods (which btw also was a point of criticism by some guys who seem to never played retold and selected a major god…)

in general tho i overall agree with you and understand your point especially if its used for personal profit and e.g. without referrring to actual source.

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I think you’ve got the wrong forum; this isn’t the forum to criticize AI, this forum is for Age of Mythology Retold. If you have a personal problem with AI, that’s your problem, not ours.

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No, there is no debate. AI is unambiguously bad. I’m not gonna assume every person who uses AI is bad, but I’m not gonna give anyone who does a free pass.

I have a problem with AI and I will make it everyone’s problem. I want no AI in my artistic circles and I want no AI in the games I play either. If you think AI is harmless you’re part of the problem.

I can reason using no AI at all. Ever.

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If you are having personal problems, please seek professional help from a psychologist or psychiatrist, not from us.

Your personal problems are no reason for you to impose your own rules. If you want to make your own rules, create your own forum

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I just checked your other post and I think the latest mock up you did looks good. I personally prefer a more feminine look for Demeter. For the haters if it’s not constructive just ignore it. Unless you enjoy arguing then go for it. You will always have people upset about something, especially on Reddit. About the AI I don’t much care one way or another. As long as it is contributing and not slop it doesn’t bother me.

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For once I agree with you. I understand not liking AI but to devote so much time going after other people who use it constructively seems excessive.

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As I said, I’m not giving a free pass to ANYONE who uses AI. There’s no good reason for using AI and I will be loud and obnoxious if I have to. I have a right to opinion as much as anyone else here.

Really bold words for someone who doesn’t own this forum.

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I don’t care and I’m not interested. If you want to get banned for spam and off topic, that’s your problem, not mine

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How is calling out AI on a topic about AI going off topic?

And not caring is as part of the problem as much as being pro AI.

Also, you don’t care, I’ll concede that. Why should that mean I’ll stop calling out AI?

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Your opinion matters the same as ours. I never said it didn’t. I just think you aren’t going to win anyone to your side (if that’s what you are trying to do) by being obnoxious about it. I agree that AI as a whole isn’t good for society but the time to stop it (if there ever was a chance) is long past. It will only get more prevalent regardless of what you or I may want. I don’t see a problem with those who want to use it for constructive purposes. It can be a useful tool to convey ideas in this instance.

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Please don’t let this escalate guys. :folded_hands:

i am happy for all the feedback and i am also interested in every opinion if its not rudly worded and brings some reasoning.

i think its obvious i personally am more of the group who is in the group of the ppl who… well leroy_jenkinsh desribed it in my opinion perfectly and straight to the point.

@RatcicleFan you sound really angry. i mean i was angry too but this was temporary but it seems you have a deep long lasting anger about a topic like this. - may i ask are you an artist? did your work got stolen/reused? or maybe a friend of yours? cause it sounds for me like it. if yes, i am sorry.
but still i can only refer to what @leroy_jenkinsh wrote “As long as it is contributing and not slop it doesn’t bother me.”
i also want to add many companies use AI for maybe not for art but for other things. I am often stubborn aswell thats why i understand its hard to swallow that times change and AI might be the future. I bet thats how the ppl back then with the internet and before that with radios etc felt. I am really sorry you feel that way.
Also BornWinter52864 didn’t mean he owns the forum, he just meant that in a… “metaphorical” way that its okay to be angry or critizise but no one makes the rules here and you shouldn’t get into that much unless you have personal reasons otherwise it could look concerning. the psychatrist wording was a bit too much in my opinion.

anyway i don’t want to get this into personal insuls and “who is morally better or worser” and i want to point out again that the biggest issue for those redditors (leroy_jenkinsh seem to have a ton of experience with x) ) was NOT the use of AI just simply guys who make females prettier and show a bit of leg are perverted and “gooners” and only Aphrodite deserves to be sensual/attractive or whatever. that they tried to be on the moral highground regarding how something has or not has to look like, AI was just a sideargument. i honestly would have understood just the AI argument way more than the nonesense those ppl wanted came up with. but reddit is another bubble as many parts of the internet scary and concerning but it is what it is*. i guess its like "evolve and adjust or deal with the consequences.*

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I disagree with that, and I’ll keep disagreeing.

I shouldn’t have to be directly affected by something to care about it, but yes, I’m an artist. And I’ve seen multiple artists completely quit arts and delete their backlog because they don’t want their work to be used to train AI. People shouldn’t have to be afraid of this.

I don’t mind fanservice, but Age of Empires/Mythology is technically a game for all ages, so I can understand why people wouldn’t want more in the franchise. That said, I’m worried about anyone who refers to women as “females”.

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Comparing the old portraits to his mock up doesn’t seem to be out of line to me. There were more indecent portraits in the OG than his. I think the gods/goddesses should be above average as far as looks go. Unless they have a reason specifically not to be.

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i have the same attitude in other things. i don’t know about you but in clear moments i have to admit that this will just lead to being “naturally selected”. as harsh as this might sound for you and for me and others.

see, why not poin this out in the first place. might have prevented some argument unless you searched for it (and a part pf me has the feeling you searched for it) of course you can care about something you are not directly affected by but being directly affected makes stuff always in every topic more reasonable/understandable. also most ppl who care about something who are not directly affected tend to stil be more objective which in your case didn’t feel like it.

I also want to add that time (unfortunately) doesn’t stand still. Back then ppl got angry about machines taking their jobs, machines you also use or depend on in your personal life. - but this is okay more reasonable cause? its not. both rely on jobs i would even go that far that (unfortunately) art is often more a hobby than a job than jobs who got replaced by machines - and stil get replaced by them. so artist and AI is just - and only just - one topic and nothing more or less special.

isn’t it PG13 i mean i played it first when i was 11/12 and back then i already saw anime characters and popstars who wore less and those were and are more publicy available.

Also we forget actual historic and mythologcial backgrounds here. I think its VERY concerning when ppl argue about exposed legs and “sexyness” when Zeus was with his sisters and r**ed females in mythology as other gods. THAT should be by far more of an issue but its human history and antique storytelling so thats makes it “Better” it seems? cause i don’t think so. if you 8 year old plays AoM this shouldn’t be the case parents can controle this but if ppl who play the game like e.g. an underage teenager and inform themselves about the source/background i think its more much more traumatising to get to know about the actual mythological stories than some art direction.
also gameing industry got way too much oversensitive and prude over the past years. but thankfully this began to change the past years. causse its ridiculous especially when you walk around irl or being on social media you see SO much worse stuff.

i don’t understand. could you please explain further? a woman is a female i don’t get the point i am sorry.

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People don’t have to be jerks about it, but I am against using LLMs for art for reasons others have already stated. I get why they might be an appealing shortcut to someone who hasn’t developed any artistic ability, but why not commission or request someone who has to draw your pieces for you?

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See, this is part of the problem I have with people just accepting AI. “Similar things happened before” shouldn’t be enough reason to accept this crap laying down, especially when it’s costing us the water and other resources we and other living beings need to survive.

AI isn’t stealing works only in the sense that companies with AI, it’s also stealing works in the sense that it can’t generate even a single pixel without stealing art and text that people put time and effort in making. You can’t say “well that’s how things work” and then be surprised that people get mad at you too.

If you don’t mean anything by it, I’m sorry, but I’d advise against it. Misogynistic men on the internet refer to people of the opposite gender exclusively as “female” and people on the internet have no reason to not assume you’re one of them if you do it too.

Not everyone has money to pay commissions (I know I don’t), but picking up a pencil isn’t that hard and I can guarantee you, if you keep practicing, anyone can become good. You won’t become good at something if you won’t let yourself be bad at it first.

But also, you don’t need to be good at art to be an artist, You don’t even need to be an illustrator: photography and music are also art.