The extra TC per age, doesn’t really matter when others than get a bunch of settlers via cards, also Berbers, Cree and German tongue.
You need a lot of food to exploit that mechanic and you need to spend food on military units to rush or counter rushes and to age up, portuguese have no medicine and constantly hunting will make them vulnerable to cavalry raids. That’s why they’re fine on water maps since they can task rally their tcs on wood and fish for food.
Also town centres take so long to pop up even with a wagon…
Their unit buffing cards also come an age later than most civs too.
I don’t complain about Portuguese, as they are my favorite civ to play.
For their in-game weaknesses:
I don’t think many people use the “medecine” card in age 2 with other civs.
as you say, having 2 TCs but no settler card forces portugueses to invest a lot of resources to catch up the economy of other civs, which makes it very hard to have a good early military.
I think in water maps you do not only have better food incomes from fishs. Most importantly your fishing ships are safe because you put the second TC next to water (the TC deals lots of damage against ships)
The TC wagon build time should be the same as when one unit builds it. We dont need to make it faster.
I dont think anybody really complain about portuguese in Treaty, so the complains are probably only an early game thing. Many people hope for more interesting age 1 card like a resource tickle card.
But their weaknesses are only a matter of fine-tuning, if the portugueses started with one more settler (their already have one more) or +100 food crate, They may easily become one of the strongest civs.
I agree, but portuguese would definitely appreciate it.
A extra town centre in the 2nd age is their civilization bonus but they can’t exploit it and have a decent early game military. Meanwhile other civs have their bonuses and don’t need to make sacrifices for them, you just get them. Meanwhile ports can have more than one TC in age 2 they are punished for it by not having shipments of settlers.
Yup the main issue is mentioned generic ######## ### also their free TCs are also something I don’t like. Not suggesting civs should pick and change their own special power, but maybe they could modify it in some way outside of researching technologies or shipment cards.
For example- instead of a generic TC wagon, Portuguese could be getting some kind of ‘support’ wagon unit that could be transformed into TC, or disassembled into resources or units. It’s always good to have some choice and flexibility.
edit: why this forum keeps censoring random words? What is even going on? It’s ridiculous.
Ports are in a very bizarre state: they can’t really make full use of their main bonus, the civ is riddled with historical inaccuracies and, even though they are good in water maps, their warships aren’t particularly tough or hard-hitting. Add to that a rough Age 1 start, some pretty weak unique cards (some few of them got buffed in DE and are now a bit more useful) and an over reliance on grabbing TPs and the civ feels… off, in a way. It feels like ES wanted to make Italians and just scrapped them 10 months into release and Frankenstein cobbled together a civ with cut content with a few historical references here and there and 1 unique unit that is actually historic for Ports (the Caçador).
It’s built on the average knowledge that U. S. Americans had in the early 2000’s of Modern Age Portugal which was, mostly, Henry the Navigator, some details on Brazilian colonization and the Iberian theatre of the Napoleonic Wars. There are other references (Nanban trade, the Portuguese white fleet), but they either aren’t well explored or are very minor.
I often complain about the organ guns because there’s no sign the Portuguese ever used them
They should be generic units, not exclusive to people who never even used them.
I agree. Organ guns really weren’t a thing in the time aoe3 aside from a few instances. Rename it to Volley Gun or Multi-barreled cannon and allow it as a pseudo-shipment (like Papal shipments) for all Euro civs only to represent how volley guns and their ilk were more experimental and not super common. Or make them a Polish mercenary arty unit - the PLC were using Organ Guns longer than Western Europe.
Portuguese should totally have access to Falconets - it was actually something they commonly used, produced and sold!
In lieu of removing organ guns from their roster, you could give them Bercos - breech-loading swivel guns for a of area of effect, close range anti-infantry or something completely different like Filalgos - armoured, elite (semi-hero/explorer tagged) units.
First of all, the Portuguese dont look like a frankenstein italian civ at all.
Second, the only really odd unit the Portuguese have are the organ gun, but I wouldnt say it is historically inaccurate. Technically they could have used it, a lack of sources says otherwise ofcourse but still. And I guess Ensemble studios just wanted another unique arty piece which would have a little bit different play style and couldnt fit it for anothet civ.
For the rest, I would say:
Town center bonus represent how the Portuguese build trade posts everywhere
Jinete, from a quick google search, if it were correct were also used by Portugal although indeed a bit odd as its a Spanish word but still, then its only a name issue.
maybe I am missing something but idk these seem to be most people complaining about.
The Organ Gun was originally planned to be the Unique Unit for Italians! That’s why it became a UU for Ports once Italians were scrapped. Add to that the fact that the original Cathedral in the Portuguese HC was based on the Florence Cathedral and it becomes harder to ignore the argument. Also when people say “Frankenstein”, it’s implied that several elements were taken from other civs, not just one: in case of the Portuguese, there are some elements that make sense for the civ, there are some elelments taken from the planned Italian civ and there are scraps from the Spanish civ (Encomienda Manor anyone?).
If it was supposed to represent that, then why wasn’t the bonus related to trading posts instead?
Spanish Jinetes and Portuguese Ginetes were indeed used. However, this was a naming convention more commonly used for light cavalry in the Medieval Era. It MIGHT be a reference to King João II’s “Royal Guard of Ginetes”, but I doubt it, since it’s a somewhat obscure reference when there’s stuff that is so blatantly wrong about the civ.
Without mentioning the Home City Cards, the only two things that make the civ really feel like Portugal during the Modern Age, is the Caçador and the Spyglass ability for the Explorer. The rest is either an okayish attempt at making some tangential refences to the civ’s (Town Center Bonus) or flat out mistakes when making it (Organ Guns).
Portuguese built fortified trading posts, not town centers. Allow them to built a small fort like India, and make them a proper tutle civ as they were.
Ginetes are completely different from dragoons. It should have focus on halberds not cav.
You dont see China using Samurais. Why should the Portuguese use Organ Guns?
Give them Aventureiros:
“the spears were passed to the slaves and the knights and soldiers received from them the swords and the broadswords. (It is worth remembering that the broadsword was a heavy sword which had to be wielded with the two hands, which prevented the warrior from using a dagger or shield to protect himself. But its strokes were devastating. When used by an athletic swordsman a broadsword could split a man from the head downwards. Therefore they were the preferred weapon of most knights).”
Pedro Homem put up an admirable fight…
“He was the last to fall for he wore European plate armour and kept the Chinese at bay with a heavy montante until he was eventually taken down by a cannon shot.”
“Even with his launch scraping the bottom, Antonio grappled the galley from the stern. At once five Portuguese knights, wearing suits of armour that covered them from head to foot, jumped into her and, wielding their two-handed swords, created havoc all around them. Within minutes the galley was fully cleared of enemies!”
“just at the point when Antonio de Noronha was about to board the galley an arrow hit him on one of his knees, causing a serious wound that made him fall helpless inside the launch. Concerned only in saving Antonio, the launch’s crew pulled away, leaving the five knights alone in the galley facing hundreds of enemies that pressed them from all sides. Then an epic fight took place in which those five performed prodigies of valour with their two-handed swords, not allowing the Adilkhan’s soldiers to return to the galley. From his vantage point atop a high parapet Adilkhan watched, in amazement, the way in which the Portuguese were fighting and could not restrain himself from praising them.”
“Some launches tried to go in aid of the five isolated knights, but the low water prevented them from doing so. It was then that the boatswain of one of the «naus» who happened to be in one of the launches, had the presence of mind to tell the crew, except for the six oarsmen, to pass to the other launches in order to lighten the one in which he himself was. In so doing he was able to quickly approach the galley’s stern, and collect the knights that were stranded except one, named João de Eiras who, in order to cover the retreat of his companions, rushed into the midst of the enemies for never to return.”
“André de Brito, returning from Siam in a small «nau» with twelve Portuguese, to put in at Phang, to water and get supplies. As always, he was received with great demonstrations of friendship by the Sultan but, as had happened with António de Pina, at daybreak he was suddenly grappled by twenty lancharans and the Malayans started to board the «nau» like ants. Once again there was a desperate struggle in which the Portuguese made wonders with their swords and spears, killing and wounding many enemies. But, such were their numbers, when one fell or retired wounded was immediately replaced by another. And as the conflict wore on the twelve lost their strength and fell one after the other. At last only a brother of André de Brito remained alive, a young man of athletic constitution who, with his heavy two-handed broadsword was able twice, alone, to clean the «nau» of enemies! But finally he, too, was exhausted. To avoid capture he jumped to the water, still wearing his suit of armour, and perished drowned.”
“At last some knights managed to hoist themselves up and into the enemy ships and, with broadsword strokes, made room for the soldiers that came after them. In a few minutes the fight spread through the whole line of «paraus», with the defenders passing from one to other as necessary and being again and again reinforced with soldiers from the stockades.”
“Although having put a brave resistance, the sixteen junks were seized. Once more the Malayans’ poisoned arrows and scimitars were no match for the Portuguese bombards, harquebuses, suits of armour and heavy broadswords.”
Monteiro, Saturnino (1995), Portuguese Sea Battles - Volume II - Christianity, Commerce and Corso 1522-1538, Saturnino Monteiro.
Portugal should be an early game civ not a late game one.
There is a lot more to cover, but atm my time is short.
Link? Historically it would make sense, but I didnt see this in the cut content for AoE III or trivia, unless I overlooked it.
Because I mean trade post in real life, the feitoria etcetera, they established a lot of small colonies like that, as you probably know. Thats not the same as how the trade post works in AoE III as a mechanic. In my opinion the town centers on age up represent the numerous smaller trade colonies of the Portuguese.
Also even if you disagree, not every civ bonus makes sense. Manor houses giving a settler? Ottoman free settlers?
Well the game has a lot of this, the Russian church card gives acces to Dragoons with a special name, which I forgot, but is also fairly obscure.
Giving the Portuguese a “ginete” unit wouldn’t really work because at least in modern Brazil, “ginete” is synonymous with “cavaleiro” (knight/rider) and almost every instance of “rider” is translated as “ginete” in the Brazilian translation of AoE3.
The feitoria’s were nearly the exact same thing as the TPs in the game. Especially if you’re mentioning the West African ones.
True, but I wasn’t the one who brought up the TC bonus.
So they got this pretty obscure reference correctly, yet they gave Ports OGs and a tech called “Encomienda Manor” and the Musketeer Royal Guard are generically called “Guerreiros”? Does that sound likely?
Call it a hunch, but it’s the only thing that makes sense. There’s 0 evidence that the Portuguese used OGs but there’s plenty of stories of it’s use in Milan.
Sorry if I come off condescending, but I really think ES dropped the ball when making this civ, just that.