IDEA: alternative to Tribal Market for Lakota/Haudenosaunee

I respect the motive for the removal of mining from Lakota/Haudenosaunee, and believe it can lead to more diverse and interesting gameplay if properly implemented. However, we can all agree the current Tribal Market building is a kludgy, inelegant solution that:

  • still relies on mine deposits;
  • with a name that’s redundant next to the existing Market and Trading Post;
  • is understandably cheap, leading to optimization by surrounding a mine with 4 to 5 (perhaps even 6?) of them, more in spirit with Supreme Commander than AoE.

Here is my attempt to propose an alternative that’s distinctive, flavorful, while viable to play.

  1. Instead of Tribal Market, they have a unique Trading Post, with a high build limit.

  2. In addition to standard TP functions, the unique TP always generates a coin trickle, AND can be worked by villagers for more coin.

  3. Each of their TC, including the starting one, spawns with one or two (depending on balance) Camp Travois.

  4. When a Camp Travois is deployed, it creates an indestructible “Fur Trapping Ground” (which comes with a special TP socket) AND builds a TP on the socket.

  5. The Ground’s TP socket is special, with unique graphics: it doesn’t count as a standard socket (so no effect on victory condition), and can be built on only by the original owner. (Alternately, it only accepts the unique TP, which allows another Lakota/Haudenosaunee player to take over.)

  6. There can be cards and techs that boost TP coin trickles, coin incomes, and ship more Camp Travois.

The intention of the design is:

  • The player is ensured basic coin sources tied to their TC count. They are free to place the sources anywhere they want (similar to Swedish prospectors). The sources are inexhaustible, can be cut off by destroying the TPs on them, but can also be restored.

  • However, to grow their income flow, the player is forced to expand and grab contested TP sites, even putting vills at risk working on them. This represents the two civs’ need to obtain wares and guns by trade.

Problems of the idea:

  • Without dedicating resources to defend them, TPs can change hands fast. The idea will inevitably change the two civs’ dynamics.

  • Reliance on TP for coin makes income too variable between different map layouts. Trying to balance that probably will only result in nerfing contested TP incomes and boosting Trapping Grounds until the former becomes effectively no different from vanilla civs.

  • It increases the player’s competition for contested TPs not only with enemies, but also with allies.


I agree that the tribal marketplace is terrible and really needs to be replaced. The camp travois is a good way to fix it but I think it should create a structure more like a cherry orchard or mango grove than a trade post. Trade posts could have additional upgrades to boost gold income for these civilizations but should be kept how they currently are. I made a post with a few other ways to generate gold (such as the pemmican trade) here:

I dont really like the idea of compying mechanics from other civs, like they already did with the two new civs which both have unique houses we really didnt need and are unoriginal.

But I dont see an easy fix for this which is both original and removes coin mining.

So either change back to coin mining, or do something similar to the Japanese orchard, so have them start with one travios for a fur trading building and just have them needing to go plantation and less reliant on coin.

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