Since Ensemble Studios-added content has already been replaced (Berserkergang being replaced with Bogsveigar), I thought one way to make the Celts more historically accurate is to replace the Woad Raider with the Kern. They’d have the exact same stats and would play the same, as kerns were historically light infantry, but they’d just look different and be less anachronistic.
I wanted to keep the Woad Raider stats the same, since it’s an iconic and useful unit, but it’s also pitifully historically inaccurate and based entirely on pop culture, so a reskin and rename to something more historically accurate can be justified.
You could save the woad raider by introducing the Picts in game, they could use it as UU I think. Celts would need a complete rework to clarify what they want to represent. Breaking them into Scots (which I guess it’s the civ they’re actually trying to portray), Welsh and maybe Bretons or Hibernians would help in achieving a more accurate depiction of Celtic north Europeans civs.
Perhaps Woad Raider could end up as Return of Rome AoE1 iron age upgrade to Axemen, since that model fits very well there, especially if Celts will be added there.
The Celts actually represent Gaels.
I would agree that they could be renamed Gaels, but I don’t think they need any splitting.
For the Woad Raiders, renaming them to Gallowglasses would be acceptable. After all, it’s just a change in name and appearance.
I hope that the Archers of the Britons can be upgraded to Longbowmen instead of Crossbowmen, which is equivalent to making Longbowmen and Elite Longbowmen replace Crossbowmen and Arbalesters respectively, as unique upgrades.
After the change, Longbowmen and Elite Longbowmen will adapt to the identity of the Archery Range unit, which means they may have similar stats to Crossbowmen and Arbalesters respectively, but the range will naturally have 6 and 7 (so no longer need to have the range bonus).
This will also help to completely resolve the current competitive relationship between Longbowmen and Crossbowmen. Then, give the Britons a new UU at Castles, eg Billman.
No, and I never said that… but bows were a lot more common than xbows in medieval England
I’d like it, but I don’t think most will. And to be fair I’m only talking about cosmetics changes… my archer line would be the same but with archer models and maybe some name changes… but the core is the same unit.
I think it should be done, at least for meso civs, they should not have european units… and they already have a unique monk… they could be a good trial
In fact, what I stated is what you’re talking about.
The Longbowmen at Archery Ranges after this change will be just like a reskined Crossbowmen.
The current Crossbowmen are with a range of 6 for Britons with the civ bonus so that is why I stated that
Although I don’t mind having them also have slightly different stats other than the range than regular Crossbowmen, e.g. they can train a bit longer, fire a bit slower but do more damage.
I also believe this will be a bold decision. But in the long run, this can solve a lot of problems.
100% support. The only argument against this is “I’ve been playing Woad Raiders for 20 years. Don’t delete them”. Those who don’t care about history don’t see their gameplay affected. Those who do, recieve a nice update. They could keep the model in the editor so people can mod them back if they miss them that much.
Some people seems to make the effort to believe Celts represent the roman era celts. It’s so hard to make them realise something as obvious as this.
This is something I’ve been wanting for a long time. The overlapping roles of xbows and longbows is such a deep design flaw it’s really weird almost no one points it out. They could become a much more intresting civ without affecting balance that much.
I’d rather give them a pre-norman UU. Don’t know exactly what. But they need something that links them better with their pre-norman anglo-saxon era.
The tech tree of the Goths is very suitable for the pre-Norman Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, and they were all Germanic people from North Germany and South Scandinavia. The current campaigns also have Goths representing them. This civilization, it seems to me, represents the kind of Germanic barbarians and is just named after only the most famous among them, the Goths.
Given the tech tree and campaigns of the Britons, I would say they are mostly representative of the English and Welsh peoples after the Norman Conquest.The earliest record of Welsh bows appears to be from 1188, also after the Norman Conquest. I want this civ to maintain the Anglo-Norman focus.
Soldiers using billhook pole weapons are full of English flavor in my opinion, and their role is intuitive — as a kind of stronger halberdier that costs a little gold. If the Portuguese gain a new UU to replace the Organ Gun one day, then the British UU can also be the Organ Gun, as this weapon first appears to had been used by the British army in the Hundred Years War.
It would pretty much have to be an infantry unit, probably with a shield and spear or axe. Possible names: Gesith, Thegn, Aetheling. Gameplay-wise I don’t know how to distinguish it from existing units, though.
Certainly the focus on infantry is right, but apart from that and the Huskarl’s name and shield, that’s about where it ends. Anglo-Saxons should have worse cavalry than Goths (basically no cavalry at all) and no gunpowder, but better monks, non-castle defences, and possibly skirmishers. (Personally, I think they wouldn’t fit well into AoE2 – although I suppose no worse than Vikings do.)
I agree with this. The word ‘Billman’ sounds a bit awkward to me, but is actually the correct term.
If the new unique unit that will replace the [Organ Gun] for the Portuguese is going to be an (siege weapon/ gunpowder unit), then it could possibly be replaced by a swivel gun which can be called the [Berços]. I know that the Portuguese weren’t the only ones who used the swivel gun extensively, so it may be weird to make a rather mundane artillery piece into a unique unit, but it could be considered if it is going to be difficult to dig after information for the Portuguese army during the Medieval ages.
Maybe it could fire Grape Shot and where the projectile causes a bleeding effect to enemy units.
I just finished watching Seven Kings Must Die and I’m now 100% sure both Anglo-Saxons and English should be considered as covered as Britons.
Yes, the tech tree is closer to Goths, and maybe even to Vikings, but tech tree is certainly not the best way to define what belongs to a civilzation and what not.
We don’t say that Chinese only represent the Tang Dinasty (I’ve read people saying the focus of the civ is most representative of the Tang era), or that the Spanish don’t represent the Kingdom of Leon despite the civ heavily focus on the colonial era.
Civilizations in AoE2 more often than not make focus on specific time-frames to give identity to a civilization, but that doesn’t mean the civ is restricted to that historical moment only.
It was decided that the Britons civ would have the archer focus that made them so iconic during the 100 years war, but that doesn’t mean they are unfit to represent the Anglo-Saxon era.
Civilizations in AoE2 should be defined by groups of peoples, states, or cultures, that shared some kind of cultural, geographical and/or historical heritage connection.
Both pre and post norman Anglo-Saxon/English occupied more or less the same area, can trace a constant historical development, and, despite the massive influence of french culture on England after the norman conquest, they both still have the same Anglo-Saxon cultural core.
Perhaps these are unnecessary, but we can probably still explore other ways to tweak Goths if we want them to be a more competent umbrella, though most of the following are buffs to the early-mid game and nerfs to the late game.
Lose Cavaliers in exchange for Barding Armor.
We know that this civ was denied useful Imperial Age heavy cavalry by the devs to avoid players not using infantry. This way allows compliance with this requirement. Goths’ cavalry usage could be represented by better fully upgraded Hussars, and a worse knight line than in the past might bring this tech tree a little closer to Anglo-Saxons.
Lose Bombard Cannons in exchange for Redemption and Block Printing.
Make them less access to gunpowder units and still keep them having a mean to counter siege weapons. But it seems that Hand Cannoneers is a must for balance.
Lose Heavy Cavalry Archers in exchange for Thumb Ring.
This way they have fully upgraded elite skirmishers.
Lose Architecture and maybe even Masonry in exchange for basic Stone Walls.
This is for the defences other than Castles.
I can understand your argument. I just want to say that the devs may have their own considerations and intentions when deciding which civ to use as a representative. Using Goths to represent Anglo-Saxons is obviously not because Britons have not been introduced yet. Even though the Sicilians had been introduced, William’s army is still the Franks.
