Same thing as what I said. Just different words.
Very unlikely, its very unlikely now too, but in that case it takes super quick reaction level more than Viper has
Not if your teammates are distracted too (like rushing an enemy)
That’s exactly why nerfing quick walling is a bad idea
Takes way more awareness for each team member to be aware of 1-3 more enemies to be aware of.
Yes sorry about that, you are right about that particular instance, I do not know what I was writing.
Very unlikely, its very unlikely now too, but in that case it takes super quick reaction level more than Viper has
Well then maybe you should try to put yourself in that situation less often with preventive thinking and that’s what the whole goal of my idea is.
The goal of the nerf would be to incentivize awareness, aggressiveness and prevention rather than speed. I believe this would make the game more fun. I think you would disagree, but at least now you explained your doubts about why
This depends on the context. It could be frustrating to you but not necessarily to Liereyy. Perhaps Liereyy was content with the damage he had done because he was doing a multipronged attack and forcing Hera to react to 4 knights already caused a panic and loss elsewhere. For pros, you have to earn every damage.
In fact have you heard any complaints from pros about this? I mean, this only happened between elites of this game. If you yourself has experienced such quickwalling in ranked games it would be more persuasive.
I agree that macro should always be more important than micro in aoe2. But micro is like the top of the pyramid. If you are punishing players who are great on both (they are greater on micro than average because micro is hard), forcing them to lose the advantage of micro for nothing, it would be an unnecessary loss for both players and viewers.
Relying on quick walling to protect your economy is an absurdly risky gambling which I doubt most people see regularly in their games.
The fact a top3 player can pull it consistently is not a good reason to nerf it for the whole playerbase…
APM is also a resource. No one can spend their APM scouting 24/24 around their economy to check if someone is attacking, and if they do, that’s a skill that should be rewarded, AoE2 has never been just a strategy game, it’s a 50% strategy 50% micro game.
Well maybe yes, maybe on the other hand he agrees with me, we do not know. (off topic: the thing I love about Liereyy is that he uses is speed to prioritise offense rather than defense)
This is exactly why I said I would love to hear opinions of pros: if the vast majority believes quick walls are ok as they are, I will be happy to accept that.
Concerning the fact that I “basically trying to nerf the top pros”, I would not be so sure about that. Pros are the best at adapting to change and I think they would be the first ones to work out the best situations in which it would still be okay to quick wall or not.
Simple, add a vote here and let’s see
Not that simple as I am not sure only pros can vote on here. But I am down to do a poll to know how casual players feel about it. However I do not know how to do it, this is my first post ever
I meant about the majority, not pros obv
Seems like I cannot edit my original post anymore, so I will put my poll here.
What is your opinion on quick walling?
0 voters
I would not remove armor or give walls negative armor but reduce it a little bit. I think some testing would be needed to figure out how fast unfinished walls go down to certain units.
Another option would be to just reduce the HP of Palisade Walls. Maybe something like 100HP (or 150) in Dark Age and 200HP in Feudal Age.
Potentially off topic, but you know how you can fix this sort of thing for any future RTS games that have similar mechanics to AOE2? (I don’t think this will ever change in AOE2 so no point discussing in my opinion) You do it by creating a unit which is a resource carrier unit (like a mule or a cart) that needs to be manually moved to an area where you want to build things. The unit would give you a certain radius in which it is permissible to build. Sort of like a mobile reverse resource drop off site (instead of dropping off resources you grab resources from it to use in building). This way a villager that is just walking out in the middle of nowhere can’t just magically start building a wall using resources like wood and stone that she just materialised out of thin air. You could take the idea even further and make it so that these units can be captured by enemy units and any resources they have will be transferred to them. Wargame which is another modern RTS (with very different mechanics to AOE mind you) has something similar in that you have supply trucks that resupply your units with ammo and spare parts so this would be something similar to that concept but with building material instead.
Quite a frustrating read if I’m honest. I think one thing I’d like to add to the debate is the question of “can you do it?”
If it’s overpowered, you should do it a lot and test to see if it makes a big difference.
My opinion is that the skill cap is pretty high. My attempts at it are mixed, sometimes it works, sometimes I wasted time, sometimes it makes things worse. When I encounter someone who can do it very well I think ‘■■■■ they are good at this!’ Not “this game is broken. In the same way I see people microing archers around mangonels and macroing like a beast ‘they are good at this part of the game’.
And that’s important, there are so many things to be good at. If they’re good at quick walking maybe you’re better at macro. If they’re better at everything they should have a better chance of winning.
But just look at Hoang, typically less good macro but amazing micro and aggression. From what I’ve seen players who know him now full wall ASAP rather than rely on quick walls… cause quick walls ain’t enough.
Yeah, don’t change anything. Revert all changes DE brought 
Browsed through the posts here.
To me, the solution seems very simple and obvious.
Reduce the armor of walls and buildings in general until they are fully, 100% constructed—at which time the real armor kicks into place.
(Alternate idea. A scaling model where the more constructed a building/wall/gate is, the closer to its max/full defense it gets. Lets say, for example, If a house had ‘10’ armor when you first start constructing the house, the house has 1 armor. When house is 50% constructed, the house has 5 armor. When house is fully constructed, 10 armor.)
One more idea. When a house/wall/gate is placed the villager starts building it, make it so the starting hp value of the house/wall/gate is closer to 1% of max hp, rather than significantly above 1%. In my view, a villager should have to pound away building for more than a mere fraction of a second to build something durable enough to block out a melee enemy.
This wouldn’t change the ability of people to quick-wall and wouldn’t stop it from being clutch. However, it would give melee units a bit more counter-play to pick a house/wall/gate that is just starting to be constructed and try and break through it as the villager builds it, and have MORE SUCCESS in doing so. (Counter-counter play being that the defender will need to use MORE villagers to build that particular house/wall/gate than they PREVIOUSLY would have had to.)
This will stop the, admittedly, ridiculous scenario where 1-2 villagers can, as the OP rightly states, completely shut out 5-8 knights from breaking in to a completed exposed woodline, gold mine, etc.
DE added QOL features, not serious mechanic changes (Except that auto scout thing, which was not welcome)
Then again, not like everyone is capable of that
The only people who really can do it very well are mostly pros
Why nerfing them?
Leads to games that play out the same. If melee units don’t work you get campy, boomy types of games. Feudal aggression doesn’t matter if stopped with such minimal time and resource expenditure by defender. (this is boring)
Pros adapt to those situations and find another way
Also, quickwalling isn’t very effective when the enemy has even one archer
ok, first of all, VULULUUUUU, but honestly, I don’t really care if a feature is reallistic or not, the game is supposed to be fun, not reallistic, and quick walling is extremly fun to pull of, actually all micro in AOE2 is extremly fun to pull of, why is that? because aoe2 is extremly responsive, there isn’t a single other RTS game that is as responsive as aoe2, when you move a knight back, the knight does not have to rotate, like a real horse would, nor anything of sorts, it just instantly responds to your command. It is the whole game design question about realism vs responsivness, in platformers for example, prince of persia goes for the realistic approach, but what ends up happening, is that when you press jump, your character takes a while to respond, while in celeste, wich goes for the arcade style, you click and madeline instantly jumps. I’m not saying that arcade is better than realism, no, I love battle for the middle earth, and it is an extremly realistic RTS, but these are extremly diferent ways of making a game. AOE2 shines for beeing arcade, nothing about AOE2 is reallistic, and that makes it possible to do all these micro moves, like dodging mango shots and stuf like that, where in battle for the middle earth, the units take so long to start moving, that its just impossible to dodge, an arcade game must shine in its arcadeness, wich is responsiveness, this feature u r suggesting, would just make the game a lot less responsive, wich is never good for an arcade game, cause thats where arcade games shine.
Also a feature like this would just make the game extremly furstrating, just like it was furstrating to quick wall back in the voobly days, at that point its just better to make foundations walkable, cause quick walling will cause more furstration than it will be fun.
Also, this would not be nerfing quick walling, this would be removing quick walling. Pre walling in your woodlines is not quick walling, thats pre walling, this feature would completly break quick walling
watch any pro games bro, plenty of times pro players will make melee units in feudal, and they work, they kill plenty of villagers, quick walling helps against melee units, but it does not make melee military useless for killing vills, just watch any pro games and you’ll see that not even them can quick wall all the time