Ideas for new DLC aimed at the americas

Szaladon · December 26, 2020, 12:32pm

Mapuche, Iroquois, Mississippi, Pueblo, Chimu, Muisca, Tarascans…

I’d rather see North America covered first than seeing additions for the other parts of America.

Josh1Axel · December 27, 2020, 2:51am

The idea of the Chankas for me is very interesting, they were the main rivals of the Incas for centuries. Heirs of the Waris (there are books that suggest that the Chankas besieged and sacked the Wari capital), fought in the civil war of the Tawantinsuyo and in the Rebellion of Manco Inca Yupanqui.
Perhaps the main historical characteristic was that the Chankas were the “Sparta of South America” while the Incas were the “Athens of South America”. They were described as a kingdom of “rich and extremely warlike people.”

Once I developed a rough draft of the Chanka civilization, it was essentially a combination of the Aztecs with the Goths. Their main quality was going to be that they did not have Plate Mail Armor and their Eagle Warrior only cost food, which went very well with the historical context because in the Inca drawings, the Chankas were represented with “winged warriors” fighting in the front line.

kero con posible escenificación de la guerra contra los chankas, en Ramos Gómez 2002 884

As a personal opinion, they should not be considered for AoE 2 civilizations that did not know the smelting of gold due to possible controversies and historical accuracy, or by default create a game mechanic for a civilization without gold and / or commerce.
I also support the idea that every civilization in AoE 2 must have a wonder.

Juggernaut8704 · December 27, 2020, 3:15am

I would prefer if we cover the cultures who are more divergent/distant from the Inti culture of Incas. That is, either the Mapuche or Muisca

Carib/Tupi would be cool too.

Parthnan · December 27, 2020, 3:44am

I’m so hyped for new civs, but only if they’re likeBohemians,Swiss, Venetians or Poles. Europe is just so much more vast and varied than this game portrays.

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 4:20am

Both already broken by the Huns. They smelted no Gold, minted no coins, had no wonder, and everything they had came from plunder.

Josh1Axel · December 27, 2020, 4:26am

The Chimú believed in the almighty God Kon and the main God Luna (SI), the Chankas were polytheists and believed in the main God Uscovilca; Both civilizations have centuries of documented history even before the Inca conquest, saying that the Chimú and Chankas are represented by the Incas is the equivalent of saying that the Cumans, Tatars and Chinese are represented by the Mongols or that the Byzantines are represented by the Turks.
The Muisca are fine for AoE 2 and also helped create the myth of “El Dorado”, but I consider the Mapuche very incoherent for AoE 2: They did not use gold, they did not have a governmental organization, they did not have marvels, they did not have cities, etc. However, they could be consistent for AoE 3. I see to Mapuches similar to the Charrúas, Tupí, Shuar, etc. * I emphasize that I love these civilizations, but I also love AoE 2 and it is essentially a medieval game.

One question: why have they advertised so much to the Mapuches in AoE 2?

Juggernaut8704 · December 27, 2020, 4:29am

My point is to disperse the civs rather than picking all from just modern day Peru.

Josh1Axel · December 27, 2020, 4:36am

Well:

Unique technology of the Huns: Atheism, even though they possessed the cult of Tengri.
Architecture: Central European, no comment.
The Wonder of the Huns is the Arch of Constantine, which historically the Huns never conquered.
They possess Paladins.

Should this also be considered for other civilizations in AoE 2?

Josh1Axel · December 27, 2020, 4:40am

The Incas occupied the territory of the current countries of Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, Chile, Bolivia and Argentina…

You must consider the Tahuantinsuyo as an equivalent to the Roman Empire in its maximum expansion.

Juggernaut8704 · December 27, 2020, 4:40am

False.

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 4:47am

Actually, we do not know their religion for sure. Religion is a one of culture’s longest prevailing elements, yet we know nothing about the hunnic spiritual life, or if they evn had one.

Well, they built literally nothing, so it does not matter what architecture set you give them, really.

It is a Triumphal Arch, and there are several in Europe, even a very famous one in Paris, which the Huns did raid.
Regardless, they did not build or hold it, for any length of time.

So do Cumans and Persians. I wish they did not have Paladin, so they would be forced more towards Tarkans, but Paladin is not an European specific unit in AoE2.

Huns being in the game, means there are ABSOLUTELY NO RULES to what devs can make as a civ, so long as they were a people, and did anything relevant.

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 4:50am

The Huns were only ever relevant throughout Atilla’s reign, and he minted no coins, or even allow them to do anything that was not War and Plunder.

The Huns were not a culture, they were just an invasion. They did not even smelt their plunder, only hoard it or exchange for more Food and Weapons.

Juggernaut8704 · December 27, 2020, 4:53am

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 4:56am

White Huns, not Atilla. Still no Wonder, or any building set.

Josh1Axel · December 27, 2020, 5:16am

And yet they gave it “Atheism” as a unique technology.

I would have liked something more similar to the buildings of the steppes of Asia, I guess they put that architecture for limitations of art.

In AoE 2, the Hun wonder is exactly the Arch of Constantine

I agree, but it must be specified that the Persians and Cumans had a legendary heavy cavalry

The Huns did not precisely possess a Heavy Cavalry.
Huns Cavalry

Well, I do not dispute that the Huns were a short-lived and legendary civilization that participated in the fall of Rome that resulted in the beginning of the Dark Age. But you have to admit that the inclusion in AoE 2 was too forced.

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 5:18am

Specially because AoE2 was supposed to start immediately AFTER the Fall of Rome, not before it.
The Huns did not even bring about the actual Fall, the Goths did.

Josh1Axel · December 27, 2020, 5:27am

In that case the Western Roman Empire could be included, but I suppose it overlaps the Civilizations of Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Berbers, Franks, Teutons, etc.

As a personal anecdote, I thought it was a serious mistake to include the Goths and the Spaniards at the same time in AoE 2, however, I later discovered the existence of the Crimean Goths and understood why the Goths have access to gunpowder.

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 5:37am

It was not a mistake. The Visigoths had a huge empire in the Middle Ages, before the Berbers overtook them.
The Spanish and Portuguese cultures are successors to the Visigoths, but no longer Visigothic as a whole. They have parts of other cultures integrated, both from the invading Moors and the Crusader relief forces.

For example: Portugal’s Afonsine dynasty was French descendant, and often married with the English. A lot of Portuguese culture has Irish elements from several groups of gloryseekers taht descended from Ireland to fight in the Reconquista. Then it also has a lot of German elements from several Crusader Warlord armies taht settled the lands they occupied in the name of the King of Portugal.
The Spanish have a similar History.

Juggernaut8704 · December 27, 2020, 7:28am

that picture does look heavy for its time period.(if it is from 5th century)

JonOli12 · December 27, 2020, 7:38am

Not really. This is more what 4th-5th century Heavy Cavalry looked like.

Granted, it was not as armoured as what came after, but was far more than the Huns in that drawing.

A good way to tell Early and pre-Medieval Heavy Cavalry from Shock Cavalry (which is what the Huns actually used, but there is no such unit in AoE2) is that Heavy Cavalry usually had barded horses, and both the rider’s legs and arms tended to be protected by rigid armour.