Hello!
We all have learned that the current Khitans are very inaccurate — infantry identity, multiple gimmicks, and Tangut stuff.
Many forum users have explicitly voiced their wish for the next DLC to give proper attention to East Asia, including the long-anticipated split of the Khitans.
Here are some ideas I’ve been considering for the split:
- The reborn Khitans would retain the Shepherds and Herders bonus, along with bonuses related to the Forging line and Cavalry Archer upgrades, emphasizing their nomadic, mounted unit-focused identity.
- The Tanguts would inherit all the Tangut-related elements from the current Khitans, including the trash unit bonus, team bonus, regeneration effect, and the iconic Camel Trebuchet.
- The Tibetans would take on the remaining features of the current Khitans, such as the infantry bleeding mechanic and the damage reflection effect.
(If you’ve read my previous concepts for the Khitan and Tibetan civs, you can regard these as a new version.)
This wasn’t meant to be a super long post, but as I tried to explain my thoughts, it ended up growing a lot, so really thanks a lot for reading.
Hope you find the ideas interesting!
Reborn Khitans
Historical Reference
The reason why the Khitans were a powerful threat to the Song dynasty of China was because they had a great reserve of horses. Almost the entire army could be cavalry, most of whom were lightly armed or even unarmored horse archers as well as a portion equipped heavily in the center. Whether unarmored, lightly armored or heavily armored, tribal horsemen or elite cataphracts, all men can shoot. One of their standard tactics is, the light cavalry would harass the enemy with a massive rain of arrows, confusing the enemy and forcing them to change formation, e.g. moving forward, then the heavy cavalry would charge with lances.
In the early days of the Liao dynasty, horsemen were often sent out to pillage the countryside on the borders of the Song and Goryeo. The threat was so great that there was a term “da cao gu” (打草穀) in Chinese and “tachogok” (타초곡) in Korean, literally threshing grass seeds, to specifically refer to this action of Khitans’ plundering behavior in historical books. Those horsemen were called “da cao gu qi” (打草穀騎) in Chinese and “tachogokgi” (타초곡기) in Korean as well.
Besides the nomad warriors, the Khitans also used spies actively, according to the records of the Song and Jin dynasties. Han people under the Liao rule were loyal to the Khitans, and their Han spies transformed themselves into monks, merchants, old women, beggars and so on, distributed from the border to the capital of Song; After the Jin discovered the activities of Kara-Khitai spies, they forcibly relocated the remaining Khitan people.
As for the foot soldiers, it seemed to have been composed largely of the ruled Han, Balhae and Jurchen peoples, fought with tactics of settled peoples just as themselves, and were used almost only to defend settled cities and major roads. The vast majority of historical records are about the activities of the cavalry. Anyway, it is clearly inaccurate to classify the Khitans as an infantry civ in any case.
Swan hunting with gyrfalcons, mostly obtained from the Jurchen area, became a prestigious tradition among the Khitan nobility. Unlike other medieval cultures where hunting with birds was personal or recreational, the Khitans integrated falconry into their political and military traditions. During seasonal royal expeditions called nabo (捺鉢), trained falcons played a central role in ceremonial hunts, with entire military escorts and imperial guards involved. The court even established specialized “falcon wards” to raise and train birds of prey, making falconry a symbol of imperial power and martial discipline. As demand for gyrfalcons increased, the empire imposed a falconry tribute tax on the Jurchen, with violent enforcement authorized under the last emperor. This exploitation fueled the Jurchen rebellion, leading to the fall of the Liao and the rise of the Jin.
Civ Bonuses
- Replace Farm and Mill with Pasture.
(Based on the idea of this post: Ideas for existing Asian civs) - Shepherds and Herders generate +10% food.
- Forging line upgrades and Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade available one Age earlier and cost -50%.
- Enemy Castles are revealed.
- [Team] Castle techs (including Spies/Treason) are cheaper.
Tech Tree
Compared to current Khitans.
- Gain the Bloodlines, Blast Furnace and Lou Chuan.
- Lose the Two-handed Swordsman (at least Champion), Squires, Cannon Galleon, Thumb Ring, Ring Archer Armor, Parthian Tactics.
- Replace the Lamellar Armor with “Threshing Raid” (or directly named “Dacaogu”): Turns the gold cost of Cavalry Archers to (possibly more) food.
- Ordo Cavalry effect changed to effects that could make Steppe Lancers and Cataphract Archers more heavy to represent the Liao dynasty royal guards and elite private troops, for example gain +1 pierce armor and take -1 damage from all sources.
Unique Units
- Tamed Gyrfalcon
(Unnecessary. More like a situational unit for fun and flavor in the Editor.)- A typical bird unit that is non-interactable, but only you can control its movement.
- The train limit is 1. Fast Trainable at the Town Center in 5 seconds starting in the Dark Age, for 100 gold.
- Gliding Mode (default):
- Flies low with 1.62 movement speed and 4 LoS.
- Can fly over water but not obstacles (e.g. buildings, cliffs, forests).
- Can follow units, and can push Wild Chickens by following with a visible stooping animation, forcing them to move.
- Soaring Mode:
- Flies high with 1.32 movement speed and 7 LoS.
- Can fly over obstacles and water.
- Can follow units and can auto scout.
- When stationary, the falcon animates by circling the edge of its current tile.
- Switching between Soaring and Gliding modes requires a 2-second transition in a visible climbing or descending state.
- Cataphract Archer
- Has distinctive stats that expensive, slow, but powerful, without any gimmicky abilities.
For example: 100 HP, 8 attack, 1/1 armor, 100% accuracy, 1.35 movement speed, 2.5 reload time, and cost at least 60 wood and 75 gold. - Replaces the Liao Dao.
- The original Liao Dao unit module could first remain in the Scenario Editor, renamed as a type of Chinese sword—e.g., Podao Swordsman, Zhanmadao Swordsman, or a more general Dadao Swordsman. It could be modified to only cause massive bleeding against mounted units.
- Has distinctive stats that expensive, slow, but powerful, without any gimmicky abilities.
Note about the Replacement for Liao Dao.
The Liao warriors indeed used dao (single-edged swords), though along with bows, crossbows, lances, maces, trebuchets, etc. However, there’s nothing particularly distinctive about the dao they used, nor were their infantry famed for swordsmanship. In fact, contemporary Chinese records describe the Liao as “skilled with bows but weak with swords and halberds.”
“Liao Dao” literally means “the dao sword of the Liao Dynasty.” The most well-known reference to “Liao Dao” online is a replica crafted by the modern swordsmith LK Chen, based on a Liao dynasty sword displayed in a museum. Aside from that, there appear to be no sources indicating that the Liao heavy infantry ever used swords to achieve notable military successes. In contrast, the Chinese armies throughout various dynasties employed Zhanmadao, two-handed great swords specifically to counter cavalry.
Regarding the Liao swords themselves, there was nothing truly unique compared to those of the Jin and Song dynasties. At most, the Khitans and Jurchens tended to make their blades slightly more curved than the Chinese ones, as they were more likely to be wielded on horseback. For the same reason, both groups primarily used single-handed swords with short hilts. Only since the Jin ruled over the former territory of the Song, the Jurchens occasionally used two-handed swords in some cases.
Interestingly, the sword featured in the current “Liao Dao” module closely resembles the podao, a two-handed curved broadsword popular during the Song dynasty. Ironically, this module might fit better as a regional unit or a Chinese unique unit (though less likely), replacing the Two-handed Swordsman and Champion. Even if the devs were uninspired, they could at least use the Mounted Trebuchet as the unique unit at the Castle for this unusual civilization currently mixed with the Tanguts. There’s really no need to create a specific “Liao Dao” unit unless they were misled by that modern replica.
Personally, I’d love to see a new cavalry archer unique unit. The Cataphract Archer could carry either a bow or even better a crossbow in visual, inspired by a rare mention in the History of Song, which notes that soldiers of Tie Lin (鐵林, lit. “Iron Forest”), a heavy cavalry unit of the Liao, had used crossbows. Paintings from the same period also show Song cavalry using crossbows, so depicting Liao cavalry unit with a crossbow wouldn’t be unrealistic.
This kind of unit would help give the Khitans a rich cavalry archer identity. In the Castle Age, they could get a strong, cheaper Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade. Later on, they could transition to even stronger Cataphract Archers as their main force, while the Heavy Cavalry Archers—now effectively trash units—could be used for harassment and raiding.
Tanguts
Historical Reference
The Tangut people began to break away from Chinese control since the chaos of the late Tang and became officially independent during the Song. Their warlike nature, combined with the highly militarized national policies instituted under Emperor Yuanhao, enabled Xi Xia—despite being a relatively small empire—to devote nearly all of its resources to military development. At its peak, the state could field up to 370,000 cavalry, including an elite corps of 3,000 heavy guards, posing a serious threat to both the Song and Liao dynasties.
This warlike spirit is partly embodied by those elite heavy units known as the “Iron Sparrowhawk”, or simply “Iron Hawks”. They were described in records as having the riders’ weapons and armor shackled to the horses so that they would not fall off even if they died, so that the horses would keep charging forward.
Their strength was built not only on their martial spirit and warlike nature, but more importantly on their emphasis on resource management. All adult males were required to serve in the military, making full use of the population. Pastoralism was the main industry, with official regulation of livestock, horses and camels. Military innovation was actively invested in, including the development of the “Divine Arm Crossbow” (a type of strong crossbow with a stirrup), the mobile trebuchet mounted on camels, and possibly even… the earliest form of bronze cannon!
Their geographical location also conferred some advantages. Located along a vital Silk Road corridor, they prospered from transcontinental trade and religious exchange. This prosperity supported the flourishing of Tantric Buddhism, exemplified by monumental projects like the One Hundred and Eight Stupas. The Alxa region, as the most important Bactrian camel producing area in China, provided robust camels. Men from the Hengshan area were very good at trekking through mountains and valleys so that they were levied as light infantry, to carry out sudden pursuit of panicked enemies after cavalry charge, or to attack in harsh terrain where cavalry were hard be utilized.
However, as powerful as they are, they also have challenges that they cannot overcome. After the Song army saw through their tactical style, they built a large number of fortresses on the border. Although the warriors of Xi Xia were strong in the open field, they were no match for these fortresses. After expending a lot of resources to support the warriors to advance deep into the Song territory, they could only plunder and leave, so they often only won pyrrhic victories. In addition, they self-assessed that the Song army’s crossbows were a major threat to them. The warriors had difficulty against the crossbowmen’s volleys especially after the Song army started to adopt the Divine Arm Crossbow too.
Civ Bonuses
- Replace Farm and Mill with Pasture.
- Free Pasture upgrades.
- Trash units trained and upgraded +25% faster.
- Arbalester upgrade and Heavy Camel upgrade can be researched from the Castle Age at -50% cost.
(Heavy Camel upgrade only increases the attack bonus vs cavalry [from +9 to +11] among attack bonuses, until the Imperial Age.) - Free Bombard Tower (tech).
(The Koreans now only free archery Tower line upgrades.) - [Team] Infantry +2 attack vs ranged soldiers.
Unique Units
- Trekker Infantry
- Trainable at Barracks from the Castle Age.
- Or called “Bubazi” (步跋子, lit. “Foot-Treader”) in Chinese historical name.
- Lightly-armored strong-health shock infantry with a jian sword, moving a bit faster than even the Eagle Warrior.
- Able to snare the target by melee attacks reducing 10% speed of them if a gimmick is needed.
- No Elite upgrade or has an insignificant Elite upgrade so the player can’t just rely on this unit.
- Iron Sparrowhawk
- Trainable at Castles from the Castle Age.
- Or called “Tieyaozi” (鐵鷂子) in Chinese.
- Melee Cavalry that is heavier than the Knight but lighter than Iron Pagoda.
- Can start to rapidly deplete the charge bar when the HP dropped to 0, and can still move, attack, and be attacked until the charge bar is depleted.
- Camel Trebuchet
- Trainable at Siege Workshops from the Imperial Age.
- Renamed from the Mounted Trebuchet. Or called “Poxi” (潑喜) in Chinese historical name.
- Now can destroy or burn forest.
Unique Technologies
- Warlike Nature (or Militarization): Horse units regenerate 1.5% HP/s while attacking in melee.
- Alxa Camels: Effects reflecting the toughness of their Bactrian camels, like camel units take -20% ranged damage.
Tech Tree
- Barrack: No Elite Fire Lancer, Halberdier, Gambesons.
- Archery Range: No Thumb Ring, Hand Cannoneer.
- Stable: No Knight.
- Blacksmith: Full.
- Siege: No Capped Ram, Heavy Rocket Cart, Bombard Cannon.
- Monastery: Good, all Castle Age upgrades are available.
- Defense: average.
- Navy: awful, no Lou Chuan/Cannon Galleon.
- Economy: No Two-Man Saw.
Tibetans
Historical Reference
Tibetans have developed agriculture in the densely populated river valleys, producing crops such as highland barley and wheat. This region, including cities like Lhasa, serves as the political and cultural center of the Tibetan people. Pastoralism is prevalent on the plateau, especially in the sparsely populated and dry north. Yaks are the most important livestock for Tibetans, known as “the boats of the plateau”.
After Songtsen Gampo (སྲོང་བཙན་སྒམ་པོ) established the empire in the 7th century, they became one of the main threats to the Tang dynasty of China. The Tibetan armies were mostly composed of conscripted peasants and herdsmen, led by nobles and officers. While on campaign, the armies carried no provision of grain and lived on plunder. With almost no logistics, they were able to suddenly show up at Chinese border cities with siege weapons, often sacking the cities they captured. Once they retreated to high altitude, it would be difficult for the Tang army to pursue them because Tibetans were skilled at fighting in high elevation, adept at ambushing enemies in mountainous terrain, and able to withstand altitude sickness.
Tibetans were also renowned for their excellent blacksmithing skills. Tang dynasty historian and official Du You (杜佑) described Tibetan armor as strong and resistant to piercing in his book Tongdian (通典). At the time, the Tibetans might have exported their fine armors to the neighboring steppe nomads; for example, Suluk, the Türgesh khagan, survived arrows fired by Umayyad Arabs thanks to Tibetan armor.
Also, after centuries, the armors made by craftsmen from the Tsongkha (aka Qingtang and Gusiluo in Chinese) of Tibetans with cold forging were described in Dream Pool Essays (夢溪筆談) of Song dynasty as bright blue-black, thin, and so tough that strong crossbows could not penetrate them. The craftsmanship was so amazing that it triggered a aesthetic popular among Chinese craftsmen of the time that create warty spots on armor to mimic the feature of the cold-forged armor, even though they were not cold-forged.
The arming longswords, known as “dpa’dam” (དཔའ་དམ) in Tibetan language, typically featured a single-edged, straight blade with an oblique point. These well-forged swords, usually about 70 cm to 1 meter long and designed for single-handed use, often displayed a distinctive “hairpin” pattern forged from alternating layers of iron and steel. These sharp swords were described as always equipped by every warrior of the Tibetan Empire, always carried by men even when not at war, and they are still regarded as exquisite works of art in China.
Notably, heavy infantry, rather than cavalry, were the impressive dominant force in Tibetan armies. Du emphasized the warriors of Tibetan Empire as “when they do battle, they must dismount and array themselves in ranks.” He described them as fully clad in iron armor, exposing only their eyes, and proficient with swords and fighting spears/lances (known as “mdung” མདུང in Tibetan) that were longer and thinner than those used by Tang soldiers. He also remarked that they were weak in archery. Some believe that it was only under Mongol influence that Tibetans began to value mounted archery and shock cavalry tactics.
The Tibetan Empire established diplomatic relations with China and Nepal through political marriages. Songtsen Gampo built the Jokhang Temple for a Chinese princess and a Nepali princess, which caused the formally introduction of Buddhism. A century later, Samye Monastery had built and at there monks had a great debate that shaped the formation of Tibetan Buddhism. Since then, the religion became the most iconic symbol of the region’s culture. People built gompas—monastic complexes—across the plateau for monks to reside, meditate, and study. In a system where politics and religion were closely intertwined, many gompas were fortified into dzongs with tall outer walls and towers. These structures served not only as religious centers but also as administrative offices and military fortresses at cities, key passes and hilltops.
Civ Bonuses
- Replace Monastery and Castle with Gompa and Dzong.
- Receive 3 Yaks (cow-type livestock) for every TC when hitting the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age.
- Gambesons and Blacksmith armor upgrades are available in one age earlier.
(The Imperial upgrades only provide +1/+1 until the Imperial Age.) - Gambesons and Blacksmith armor upgrades generate 0.2 gold/s after researched.
(Kind of the Spanish bonus but bringing permanent incomes instead.) - Steppe Lancer line and Spearman line units gain actually +0.25 range (to simply allow them to strike first).
- [Team] Monk units regain Faith +20% faster.
Unique Buildings
- Gompa
- Replace the Monastery. (So they have no “Monastery”.)
- Buildable by Villagers, Lamas and Rinpoches from the Feudal Age, with a size of 3x3 tiles.
- Have a range to heal units one bye one as if it were an immovable monk.
- Can train Monks from the Castle Age and upgrade them.
- Gompa refers to a sacred Tibetan Buddhist spiritual compound, practically their temple and monastery.
- Dzong
- Replace the Castle. (So they have no “Castle”.)
- Buildable by Villagers and Rinpoches from the Castle Age, with a size of 4x4 tiles.
- Can train Monks and upgrade them (as if the Monk line units were the Castle UU of the civ).
- Can be garrisoned and fire more arrows when garrisoned by monk units and Relics.
- The range is for not only firing arrows but also healing units one bye one like Gompa.
- Dzong is a subset of gompa design that basically a fortified mixture of gompa monasteries, education places, administrative hub and military fortress.
- In the game, it should act as a fortress that is able to provide some Gompa-like function.
Unique Units
- Dpa’dam Swordsman
- Replaces the Longswordsman at Barracks in the Castle Age and has the Elite upgrade in the Imperial Age.
- Heavy Tibetan warrior, equipped with a shield and wielding a sharp dpa’dam that can cause enemy, not only mounted but also foot units, bleeding a little.
- Being a UU for rationalizing the bleeding mechanic. If people accept that the mechanic can directly be given to the regular units of Longswordsman and Two-handed Swordsman, we don’t actually require this unit.
- Urrdo Slinger
- Similar to the Incan Slinger, trainable at Archery Ranges from the Castle Age, but no Elite upgrade in the Imperial Age.
- Expensive, but comes with bonus against infantry and good health.
- Can deal a minimum of 2 damage in the Castle Age and 3 in the Imperial Age.
- The Tibetan sling is a traditional tool of herdsmen, known as 'ur rdo (འུར་རྡོ), pronounced roughly as “urrdo”, usually woven from yak fiber. On the battlefield, it was the most convenient and skilled weapon for the conscripted herdsmen warriors.
- Since the herdsmen often served as horsemen in battle, this unit can uniquely be a mounted slinger instead of a foot slinger if you want something fancy.
- Lama → Rinpoche
- The Unique upgrade for the Monk in the Castle Age and in the Imperial Age.
(There would be Monk → Lama → Rinpoche. The Rinpoche is just essencially Elite Lama under a flavorful name.) - Trainable at Gompa and Dzong from the Castle Age.
- Lama can build Gompa.
- Rinpoche can build not only Gompa but also Dzong.
- Being a UU for rationalizing the constuction ability. If people accept that the ability can directly be given to the regular Monk, maybe we don’t actually require these upgrades.
- The Unique upgrade for the Monk in the Castle Age and in the Imperial Age.
Unique Technologies
- Mdung Formation: Barrack units reflect 25% non-projectile damage at attackers.
- Cold-Forged Armor: Militia-line and Steppe Lancer units take a maximum of 3 damage from each non-siege, non-gunpowder projectile.
Tech Tree
- Barrack: No Fire Lancer line.
- Archery Range: No Arbalester and Hand Cannoneer.
- Stable: No Hussar, Knight.
- Blacksmith: No Bracer.
- Siege: Full except Bombard Cannon. Have Mangonel line instead of Rocket Cart line.
- Gompa: Full except Heresy.
- Defense: Good while no Bombard Tower.
- Navy: awful, no Lou Chuan/Cannon Galleon.
- Economy: No Two-Man Saw.
For the Future
Bai
- Have weak cavalry. Have access to the Battle Elephant but lacking many upgrades especially the Elite Battle Elephant. Although elephants lived in the region, historical records show that people rarely used elephants in military operations.
- Have “Luojuzi” (羅苴子) as UU. They were the elite vanguard of the Nanzhao Kingdom, described as being equipped with scarlet helmets, rhino leather armor and bronze shields, and able to run barefoot on treacherous terrain at high speeds. Perhaps they can be a shock infantry unit throwing spears as there was indeed a tradition of javelin throwing at the region.
Chams
- Features about crossbows, like replacing (Elite) Elephant Archer with (Elite) Elephant Crossbowman. (While the Elephant Archer line replace Cavalry Archer line for Southeast Asian civs, except for the Vietnamese.)
- A crossbow-wielding soldier that is cheap, quick to train, and requires only 0.5 population space, as if it were a ranged version of Karambit Warrior.
- Very good navy.
- The team bonus could be about farming, such as the first Farm is free, to reflect the introduction of Champa rice during the Song dynasty significantly boosted agricultural productivity in China.
Siamese
- Bonuses for Battle Elephant. It could be Imperial Battle Elephant, but the Elite upgrade is fairly powerful and expensive enough, so maybe it could have the Elite upgrade cheaper instead.
- The UU could be Elephant Cannoneer, if we want a cool new elephant unit. Siam adopted Portuguese gunpowder weapons in the early 16th century. According to Wikipedia, there are three persons on a Siamese war elephant: a polearm warrior on the neck, a signaler under chatras, and a steerer on the back, with the steerer probably carrying a musket and sword. At the Battle of Nong Sarai in 1593, it is recorded that a man on the Siamese side (although it is uncertain whether he was a Portuguese mercenary or a Siamese officer) fired musket from the back of an elephant, striking and mortally wounding the Burmese prince.
- A unique monk unit to reflect people’s devotion to Buddhism. Maybe an elephant-riding monk. The Chronicles of Ayutthaya show that monks were invited to important occasions riding on elephants.
Göktürks
- Represent the pre-Islamic and pre-Mongol Turkic peoples of Central and East Asia, including not only the Göktürks themselves but also the Tiele, Xueyantuo, Türgesh, Toquz Oghuz, Karluks, Uyghurs, and other groups hostile to the Göktürks.
- Use Pasture, have no Knights, and have “Böri” (lit. wolf), their heavy cavalry and royal guard, as UU at Castle.
- Since they basically have no stationary strongholds, the team bonus can be to allow UTs to be researched in TCs as well.
- They valued scouting so much that they can have a simple and cheap UT to their scouts and Outposts to have a cap of 20 LoS. Tang dynasty records show that the Göktürks would send out scout cavalry before going to war, and the scale of these scout cavalry was extremely large, with a group of hundreds, thousands, or even more than a thousand tents.
- The defense is awful, maybe no walls, so it is even more necessary to use the wide LoS to help attack or alert the enemy to raid.
Sogdians
- Representing the oasis city-states of pre-Islamic Eastern Iranians and Tocharians, while the Persians were Western Iranians.
- Have excellent monks, defense, and economy, but poor navy, siege, and infantry.
- Have no Ring Archer Armor but Parthian Tactics have double effects, so their (Heavy) Cavalry Archers can counter spearmen more well.
- “Cakar”, personal soldier-retainer of the nobility in pre-Islamic Central Asia. It can be UU at Castle, good vs cavalry as if it were a mounted version of Genoese Crossbowman. But it is weaker vs infantry and archers than general Cavalry Archer, for example it has decent default stats but it won’t be affected by any Blacksmith and Archery Range techs so that it won’t gain the attack bonus vs spearmen from Parthian Tactics.
- Can enable Sogdian Cataphract in Stable after a UT is researched, as if it were a mounted version of Huskarl.
- Use Cavalry Archers to counter infantry, Cakars to counter cavalry, and Sogdian Cataphract to counter archers, forming a triangle combination that can cover each other.
