Hi everyone!
Just wanted to share some ideas I’ve been considering for Asian civs recently.
Some of these ideas are probably still rough around the edges. But if any of them catch your interest, or you’d like to continue about how to improve them, I’d be really glad.
Thanks a lot for reading! Let’s start!
Old civs
Chinese
- Gain access to the Hand Cannoneer.
- Gain the Flamethrower (cart) as a UU available at the Siege Workshop in the Imperial Age.
- The speed bonus for Fire Lancers and Fire Ships has been removed. In exchange, the Dragon Ship gains +10% base speed.
- Gain a new bonus: gunpowder foot units fire two additional secondary projectiles in their ranged attacks.
Introduce Flamethrower with a dragon-head-shaped nozzle, aligning the civ more closely with its gunpowder identity. This might end up being more of a situational unit, even if its stats would be different from the one currently in the Scenario Editor, so I’m not really trying to discuss its impact on balance.
The previous bonus for faster Fire Lancers and Dragon Boats was not very practical. Historically, fire lances were used to fire shrapnel—such as iron pellets or pottery shards—similar to the effect of shotguns. Multi-barreled hand cannons like the three-eyed gun from the Ming dynasty were also employed. Based on this, it would be more appropriate for the bonus to grant gunpowder infantry additional pellets, instead of boosting speed.
They already have strong archers, so having Hand Cannoneers doesn’t particularly affect the balance—at least I hope so.
Japanese
- Rename Yasama to “Yagura” (櫓/矢倉).
- Remove Kataparuto.
- To follow the siege warfare theme, grant access to the Bombard Cannon and introduce a new UT named “Bohiya” (棒火矢), or “Ōzutsu” (大筒).
- The new UT grants Hand Cannoneer projectiles a small blast radius, and gives gunpowder units additional attack bonuses against buildings and ships.
- Add the Ninja as a second UU for the Japanese.
- Introduce the Sohei, a monk-spearman unit, into the Scenario Editor. It can be enabled in the Monastery for Japanese in campaign scenarios.
Renaming Yasama (矢狹間) makes sense. The Japanese translation of the University tech Arrowslits is sama (狹間), only differing by the ya (矢, “arrow”). This is comparable to having a unit called “Scout Cavalry” and another called “Scout Cavalryman” in English.
“Yagura” is one of the Japanese terms for towers and refers specifically to defensive towers (corner towers and wall towers) in Japanese castle structures. Its etymology—meaning “arrow warehouse”—distinguishes it from tou (塔), which has been used to the in-game Watch Tower line.
Kataparuto is completely fictional and should not be used as a UT to represent the history and culture of the Japanese.
Trainable Ninja will be cool! Redesign it as a fast-moving shock infantry unit with a unique gimmick, such as the ability to cross walls without a siege tower. It could become available at the Castle once Conscription is researched, and it could be a highly situational unit like an expensive glass cannon.
Koreans
- Lose access to Hussar in exchange for gaining Blast Furnace and Plate Barding Armor.
- Change the class of War Wagon to siege cavalry.
- Change the War Wagon’s projectile to a straight volley of around 4 rockets, arrows, or bullets.
- Shinkichon also benefits War Wagons.
- Introduce the Hwarang, a sword unit that maybe is mounted and has healing abilities, into the Scenario Editor. It can be enabled at the Monastery or University for Koreans in campaign scenarios.
- Bombard Tower tech can be no longer free.
The Koreans don’t particularly need free Bombard Tower tech. The free Keep upgrade and the extra range from Eupseong already make them favor building archery towers. Removing the free Bombard Tower tech opens the possibility of using it as a bonus for another civ instead.
Hussars without key upgrades are often weaker than properly upgraded Light Cavalry. Strengthening Koreans’ Stable without directly buffing War Wagons won’t make the civ overpowered but will help make cavalry a viable support option. Meanwhile, the War Wagon is reworked slightly to better reflect its historical inspiration and make it more logically classified (e.g., not being countered by skirmishers).
The Hwarang unit can help spotlight early medieval Korean history. The current Korean UUs—War Wagon and Turtle Ship—are from relatively late periods, so Hwarang would help add earlier representation.
Mongols
- New Castle visual.
- Gain access to Fire Lancer and Heavy Rocket Cart instead of Siege Onager.
- Nomads now affects all building types, including Castles and TCs.
- The extra HP for Scout Cavalry and Steppe Lancers is now bundled into the effects of Nomads.
- The effect of Drill is changed: siege units move 25% faster and unlock access to Naqara at the Castle.
- Naqara is a new UU: a war drummer mounted on a Bactrian camel, trainable at the Castle. It inspires siege units within 10 tiles to move 25% faster.
The current Mongol Castle visual isn’t inaccurate, but it’s also appropriate for the Khitans. It would be better to reserve it for them and instead give the Mongols a new Castle design that reflects a more nomadic aesthetic—perhaps decorated with yurts and felt structures like the Wonder of Cumans.
While I agree that it may seem unconventional to give an iconic civ like the Mongols a unit having aura, this could be a useful step toward slightly softening their late-game dominance. Their strongest power spike remains intact, but they now require extra preparation and protection for the Naqara to maintain full siege mobility. This introduces both tactical depth and counterplay. Moreover, Naqara are mentioned in the narrative of the Genghis Khan campaign from the very beginning, which supports their introduction.
Saracen
- Release an official skin mod that changes the Mameluke’s mount from a camel to a horse.
- Bimaristan also enables the Camel Ambulance at the Monastery.
- Camel Ambulance is a new UU: a mobile field ambulance drawn by camels. It can heal nearby units with the healing aura like a Monk. However, it cannot attack, convert enemies, or carry Relics.
I saw that there is a statement (here) that the Abbasids utilized field hospitals and also ambulances drawn by camels. This could be a good addition so that Bimaristan can be used more actively, as the Camel Ambulance is supposed to be mobile and able to keep up with the speed of mounted units.
Southeast Asian Civs
- Replace Cavalry Archer with Elephant Archer for all Southeast Asian civs, except the Vietnamese.
- Remove access to Cavalier for all Southeast Asian civs, except the Vietnamese—assuming the Battle Elephant is strong enough to compensate.
Burmese
- Burmese Elephant Archers also benefit from the civ bonus and Howdah, gaining extra armor.
- Burmese make the team bonus that reveals the location of Relics become a civ bonus.
- New team bonus: Knights and Battle Elephants +2 attack vs buildings, which is going to restore part of the old effect of Manipur Cavalry.
Khmer
- Khmer Elephant Archers also benefit from the civ bonus, moving faster.
- Khmer lose access to Siege Engineers.
- Khmer make the team bonus that gives Scorpions +1 range become a civ bonus.
- New team bonus: Elephant units gain +3 LoS, for example.
Malay
- Malay Elephant Archers also benefit from the civ bonus, being cheaper
- Lack the Elite Elephant Archer upgrade, similar to their lack of Heavy Cavalry Archers.
- As long as the Javanese people are still represented under the Malay umbrella, the civ should gain access to the Thirisadai, a historical Javanese warship.
- Harbor, as a unique Dock upgrade, could be researched directly at the Dock instead of requiring a Castle. A new Castle Age UT could be introduced to replace its current slot.
The Three Kingdoms DLC civs
Shu, Wei & Wu
Check this topic of mine for them: Move on and make Three Kingdoms more accurate and balanced
Ideally they should be separated from the main game, but in any case they should be more accurate to the kingdoms they represent.
Jurchens
The current design of the Jurchens feels overly punishing to small mistakes. Unless they can catch the opponent off guard, they are largely reliant on fast-attacking Scouts—decent, but not dominant. Their Steppe Lancers might compete with Knights in melee, but only if the Jurchens manage not to fall behind in Feudal Age. If they do, and their opponent is experienced in countering surprise plays, the Jurchens may lack the economy to support Steppe Lancer production. Their bonus of no animal decay is beginner-friendly, but ultimately shallow in competitive settings.
Despite having an aggressive bonus in faster attack speed, the civ’s bonuses for siege and fortifications often steer it toward slow pushes with gunpowder and defensive buildings. Ironically, on closed maps, they sometimes don’t even need a Stable—an odd outcome for a civ known historically for cavalry shock tactics.
Historical Inaccuracy
The current playstyle doesn’t reflect Jurchen history very accurately. The Jurchens took only 13 years to destroy the Liao dynasty, and merely 2 years to conquer the Northern Song. Their military identity was built around powerful, heavily-armored cavalry. Gunpowder and siege defenses only became prominent after they had already conquered and ruled northern China.
It’s odd that their typical heavy cavalry is locked behind the Castle, while explosive-throwing troops are available from the Archery Range. The civ would be better represented with a strong early cavalry presence, and solid—but not dominant—defenses and ranged units later on.
Furthermore, the current UT Fortified Bastion feels not unique, lacking a clear and specific historical reference. Given that the civ already has cheaper and faster siege/fortification techs, defensive strength is sufficiently represented. While keeping the lack of Thumb Ring and Parthian Tactics, Fortified Bastion could be replaced with a new UT focused on archery instead.
Lastly, it’s oddly punitive that the Jurchens don’t even have access to the Longswordsman. Their economy isn’t powerful enough to justify such a weak infantry line. Historically, the Liao’s foot soldiers were largely composed of non-Khitan troops, including Jurchen men—so it would make more sense for the Khitans to lack swordsmen, not the Jurchens.
Proposed Civ Bonus Rework
- Huntable and livestock animals do not decay.
- Horse units (i.e. camels and elephants are excluded) attack 20% faster starting in the Feudal Age.
- Gunpowder foot units deal +25% bonus damage.
- Siege and fortification techs cost 75% less wood and research 100% faster.
- [New] From the Feudal Age, Fishing Ships can fire arrows (3 damage, 3 range) and may even carry 5 units—representing the Jurchens’ early fishing culture and Toi piracy.
- [Team Bonus] Units take 50% less friendly fire damage.
Proposed Tech Tree Adjustments
- The Grenadier receives an Elite upgrade and is moved to the Castle.
- The Iron Pagoda is moved to the Stable, getting tweaked on stats while keeping the ability.
- Gain access to: Longswordsman (or Two-Handed Swordsman), Arbalester, Hand Cannoneer, Fast Fire Ship.
- Lose: Bombard Cannon.
- Replace the Fortified Bastion with “Mengan Mouke System” (new UT):
Archer line and Cavalry Archer line units gain 100% accuracy and cost 33% less gold.
(This references the Mengan Mouke system of the Jin dynasty—an administrative and military structure rooted in tribal hunting groups.)
Optional
- If a cool late-game defensive flavor is still desired after the replacement for Fortified Bastion, allow the Thunderclap Bombs to replace Castles’ and Towers’ main projectile with a grenade when attacking targets within 6 tiles.
Khitans
For the Khitans before a split.
The Khitans currently enjoy a suite of powerful Feudal Age advantages, including as many as three bonuses benefiting Scouts and a highly efficient food income from Herders throughout the game. Even under heavy pressure, they can respond with Spearmen and Skirmishers that train and upgrade faster and—thanks to a unique technology—can “reflect damage”, making the civ unusually durable.
If their economy and forging bonus are moderately toned down, and their trash units no longer benefit from bonuses, the civ may become balanced enough to justify receiving Bloodlines. In turn, the regeneration rate from Ordo Cavalry could be nerfed to compensate for this added survivability. Additionally, Thumb Ring could be removed to balance their HCA in the Castle Age.
Thumb Ring is more expensive than Bloodlines, and HCA already has 80% base accuracy. Therefore, HCA with Bloodlines instead of Thumb Ring could potentially be more popular than HCA with Thumb Ring but without Bloodlines.
Thematically, the current UT Lamellar Armor granting damage reflection feels out of place. Lamellar was a widespread armor type across Asia and impossible to provide any unusual effect like damage reflection. A more fitting thematic name would be “Infantry Formation”, reflecting the fact that many of the Liao Dynasty’s foot soldiers—who were mostly non-Khitan—likely employed the organized formations and tactics of sedentary peoples rather than nomadic warfare.
The mechanical behavior of Pasture also warrants revision, both for balance and thematic clarity. It feels counterintuitive for a civ that doesn’t use Farms to still rely on Mills, especially given that their Mills depict large a waterwheel—implying an irrigation-based farming system. Allowing the Pasture to fully replace both the Farm and the Mill enhances thematic consistency for a steppe civilization like the Khitans.
Proposed Civ Balance Changes
- Reduce the base food-gathering efficiency of Herders from 0.42 food/sec. A value around 0.38, or at least 0.33 (equal to the efficiency of Shepherds), is suggested.
- The Forging line no longer double effects. Instead, these techs become available one Age earlier and cost 50% less. For this, gain the Blast Furnace.
- Remove the civ bonus that faster train and upgrade trash units.
- Gain the Bloodlines and lose the Thumb Ring.
- Ordo Cavalry regeneration rate reduced from 2.5% HP/sec to 1.5% HP/sec.
- Lamellar Armor is renamed to Infantry Formation, and its effect is adjusted to affect either all infantry and foot archers, or only infantry.
Proposed Pasture Rework
- The Pasture replaces both the Farm and the Mill:
- Villagers can drop off food from berries, fish, prey, livestock, and farms at the Pasture.
- All Pasture upgrades and the reseed-like mechanic are moved from the Mill to the Pasture.
- The Pasture initially produces no animals. Animal spawning must be unlocked by a new Dark Age upgrade costing, for example, 100 wood.
Enhances thematic consistency for a steppe-based civilization and improve gameplay clarity, and prevents the Khitans from skipping the wood investment that other civs spend on a starting Mill.
- Animal in Pasture is redesigned to become more natural:
- Each animal spawned by the Pasture now carries 140 food and decays naturally, like animals in the wild.
- When two Herders work at the same Pasture, they will prioritize the same animal, reducing waste.
This creates a natural balancing factor. Due to decay and shared gathering, each animal now yields around 100–105 food before it disappears. Compared to the current total of 110 food per animal, this also serves as a minor nerf.
Additionally, the decay mechanic introduces a unique strategic drawback compared to Farms: if the Pasture is raided and Herders retreat, slaughtered animals continue to decay and lose food. In contrast, crops on Farms remain intact. This adds a risk–reward element and requires the emphasis on defense and map control.