[Ideas] Simple suggestion to buff Jaguar Warriors and to make them feel different from Aztecs Champion

  • remove the 1PA that was given to compenciate from the arrival of gambeson
  • add a bonus VS cavalry (on top of the bonus VS infantry)

Since their high price in food and gold, I don’t think it’s much of a deal. They only have amazing monks to win VS cavalry, and they could have something more with gold to fight heavy cavalry spam.

They would also finally be different from the legionary and the urumi swordsmen.

Also historically, the weapon they’re using (the macuahuitl) were record beheading horses, so it would not be completely out of touch historically.

It sound like a better Viking with Eagle which is pretty good for an infantry civ

Actually Aztecs were afraid of horses so that proposal makes little sense.

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Better to reduce their cost and/or increase speed and/or increase attack bonus vs infantry.


The Aztecs ironically struggle against Infantry civilizations.
So maybe they should double down on the Anti-Infantry role of the Jaguar Warrior.

At the moment they lose the fight against a bunch of different Infantry UUs with equals Resources, that should definitely not be the case. The only Infantry UU that should potentially be stronger is the Samurai because of the anti UU bonus.


  • Jaguar Warriors take -3 damage from Infantry units
  • Jaguar Warriors heal +5-10 HP for every Infantry unit killed
  • Jaguar Warriors get a charged attack that only does bonus damage vs. Infantry

Second idea sounds cool.

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Maybe just +20 bonus damage against Infantry like what Hand Cannoneer did

Maybe sounds like a better idea. I like the snowball effect, but I believe they would still lose on mass Urumi Swordsmen, due to the splash damage ignoring armor.

I believe also Aztecs are close to being “over powered” again, and touching only the jaguar warrior could be a good way to buff them without going to the “overpowered” territory.

Just like increasing their PA, I think it would be a boring lame way of solving them.

Overall making them exclusively good against infantry, while not being the best anti infantry infantry, kinda sucks.

I don’t mind paying more food and gold for a unit that can do other unique stuff, as given the ideas by Skadidesu :smiley:

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The problem with some UU Infantry, along with the natural problem that all Infantry units in the game have, is the need for a Castle and they are expensive to go for.
My proposal:

  • Make them cheaper OR Produce twice as fast OR Produce two units at the same time
  • Make Elite upgrade free OR much cheaper and improve Elite stats
  • They are already niche units, make them more niche OR create another niche in them
  • Make them produce from the barracks like the Goths (Give them something else to compensate)

Good Infantry UU:

  • Obuch, Huskarl, Kamayuk, Woad Rider, Berserk, Condottiero, Karambit

Not bad but could be better:

  • Throwing Axeman, Gbeto, Serjeant, Chakram, Ghulam

Really bad:

  • Samurai, Teutonic Knight, Jaguar Warrior, Shotel, Urumi
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TBH I would just change their Cost to 45 F 40 G.
Anti-Infantry specialist that weights more heavy on your Gold than the Champ line, but the overall eco investment is lower due to the lower Food Cost. Especially in the midgame where you also need less upgrades to make that addition. Elite upgrade could add a little bit more Bonus vs Infantry, but I don’t think that’s necessary as Aztecs want to end games early anyways.

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True. And one of the reason why JW is not the best anti infantry is because it is too expensive and slow for the job.

Sure? They have higher speed than the Militia line and that’s probably the one you try to counter with them.
Ofc Jags can be changed to be less rounded unit. But I don’t think that’s necessary if they would have considerably higher Gold ratio than the militia line for Aztecs.

I personally prefer to differ them via the Gold ratio, but ofc making Jags more specialised can also work.
I prefer the Gold ratio in the grand scheme of things as when we finally find a general solution for Infantry, the higher specialisation as best Infantry counter would bite us in the ####.

I don’t see exaclty why they need higher Speed, cause Aztecs already have the speedy Eagles.


Give them +1 attack per unit they kill. Since they already do 20-30 damage or so to infantry that’s a pretty small bonus against them, but a big bonus against other units like cavalry.

That way, you still need the right circumstances to use them; a lot of infantry to kill. But once you do, you get a power unit that can deal serious damage to everything.

While remaining balanced by the fact it’s still vulnerable to castles and archers, so there is still a way to kill it.

Keeps them in their role as a niche unit, just allows them to expand beyond that in the right circumstances.


This is why I would not change the numbers in cost nor in simple stats (just like what the devs did with +1 Pierce Armor), but work with the idea of a more expensive castle unit, and justifying the price, with a whole new interesting mechanic.

I like the kind of suggestions that promotes such changes, like health back on kills (would be new :smiley:), infantry armor, +X damage on kill, etc…

Perfect balance would be a world where you could go for either Champions + Jaguar Warrior, or both at the same time.

Just like archer, they need to catch them up to efficiently chase other infantry :stuck_out_tongue:

To fight other eagles when you are fighting Mayans eagle or behind in eagle number. And also some speedy infantry UU that are also good against Eagle - Ghulam, WR.

I have no problem with that either.

Hera made top 5 worst UU. And JW was one of them. He asked a question that is imo the main problem of JW. “What unit JW counter that Aztecs champion can’t kill?” I opposed the “Free Gambeson” of JW and asked for more speed and/or cost. So that they could at least have different PA.

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How about makeing Jaguar Warriors +10 surrounding AOE damage against infantry. It keep their role and they will quite OP against most of the infantry. And most of the time infantry are in team fight due to the lower cost compare to knight line so AOE damage will be more suit

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Aztec has it easier imo. The eagles has more attack and can choose to run away thus picking fights. Late game they have powerful skirmishers and pikeman with +4, so they aren’t really that weak with trash war either. Unless they get raided to death, thats another story.

This might sound good, as the goal is to see more usage of JW. But then I think about how a player only need to make just 2 units and be done with it, which could backfire.

There is some niche use for them in late game trash fights, you make a couple and their skirms/pike can’t exactly touch them. Or when up against Bulgarian or Malay 2HS.

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The issue is if the enemy has ANY other options after, they hard counter them. Siege, Archers, Cavalry, they all trade effectively with them.

So if you ever go for them, you’re setting yourself up for loss unless you win instantly. And infantry are so cheap they’re rarely the game-winning move.

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I can’t telly you why the Aztecs struggle against Infantry civilisations but statistically most of their worst matchups are Infantry civilisations (Dravidians, Slaves and Romans).


The 3 infantry UU that have huge attack bonus vs an armor class are - JW, Samurai and Kamayuk. All three but JW got some discount on their cost. JW got 1PA instead. But having PA was never JW’s role tbh. They should also got a cost discount.