Their problem is their lack of eco, but also that their archers are nor better in attack than the rest. I’ve been thinking they could get some kind of bonus in regard they attack, but I can’t find a proper one.
And eco, well, I would like them to have a production bonus instead of a certain amount of resources extra.
I like the vietnamese but they take a lot of skill practice and micro. They can be really good if you constantly micro units. You will be behind in economy but the combination of elephants and some of the best skirms and archers in the game will help you take the edge. Using the elephants as tanks in front of the ranged units is the only way to go with the vietnamese.
So no they should not be buffed.
I like the too, and I think you’re right about the gameplay; nevertheless, it’s really difficult to micro everything and or do that gameplay, in comparison with other civs Khmer wasn’t bad before, just really hard to use. Well, i want the same for viets. Keep the idea of the civ, but buff it!
Their archer bonus isn’t great, but it doesn’t have to be the defining feature of their civ the way that it is for Britons and Mayans, so I don’t know that Vietnamese archers need to be buffed. Due to having the beefiest battle elephants, Vietnamese can tank better than Britons, Mayans or Ethiopians, so their niche is something like a “tanky/defensive archer civ.”
One thing I think would be cool would be to give the Vietnamese an upgrade like Malay Thalassocracy, but for the Archery Range. It would give the Range a low-powered tower like the harbor, but that only shoots one arrow, and maybe increases work rate by 5% and hp by 15% (Vietnamese don’t get masonry or architecture, so their buildings are rather flimsy, but having a stronger range would be a cool low power buff).
Other than that, I don’t know that the Vietnamese need any more military buffs. +1 attack for archers per age would be way too strong, and free ballistics would be extremely strong, bordering on OP. A small eco bonus might do the trick.
I like your idea about the ranges shooting arrows, altough i don’t think they’re gonna change any unique tech.
Sn eco bonus is mandatory, but maybe they could use a military one. Their military bonuses are kinda flavorless
Yeah, they probably won’t. Then again, it could just be a free upgrade/bonus given on reaching Castle or Imp.
I don’t know that Vietnamese need another military bonus (and they already got the battle elephant training time reduced), since as others have pointed out, they do have some pretty solid options, even if they don’t seem as tasty as others. A decent eco bonus would help them get there though. If anything, I’d cut down the training time for Rattans by a couple seconds.
let free fletching, bodkin, bracer like Magyar + improve power of rattan( [1] an example slow attack to = archer line and reduce cost for it)
Yeah, i thought about that, but it doesn’t give a real advange, since pretty much its something you gonna get if you play archers. It helps the rush, but not that off a general bonus.
M@a and scouts are a faster strategy, and thus, they work better with a free attack upgrade.
I would cut the frame delay from rattan. Make the shoot faster. And for archers…
Free fletching would make trush super OP. I bet ppl wouldnt even care about going archers, just maa and towers with free fletching could give a huge advantage. If we want to improve archers and eco, we have to avoid that side effect.
Exactly. I think and think, and If the idea of viets is to be a “bulky defensive civ”, then it should go all the way. Give more life to the UT (maybe 100 or 120 extra hp instead of 50) and make their archers stronger. Maybe 40%hp. Or more armor, idk (altough pavise gives more armor, so I would say 40%)
Last, but not least, it would be reallycool if rattan had bonus agains chu ko nu: first because of history, and second because chi ko nus are the only archers who win agains rattan. They’re are a little op to me, so I will be good to vietnamesse to be a counter for them (and thus, Chinese)
Uh, what? Koreans already get a better version of that with extra tower range, free tower upgrades, and faster stone mining. True, they lack the +1 damage of fletching for a small window until it’s researched, but they keep the benefit of the extra range. Giving Viets free fletching (or free fletching/bodkin/bracer) would not even make their Trush as good as Koreans, much less “super OP”. That said, I’m not sure free fletching is the solution, and I think a generalized eco bonus would be better.
That’s almost getting into war elephant territory there. Outside of what Furor Celtica does for rams, there’s no tech that gives anywhere near this level of HP. I could live with it giving 60 hp or so, but let’s not get carried away.
Imp Skirms are already a great unit. This would make them stupid strong. Again, I don’t think the archer HP bonus needs to have the same impact on the game as the Briton Range or Mayan discount.
Their military units/bonuses are mostly fine, and if anything should be the recipient of very minor buffs; what they need is help getting there (eco).
Koreans range and tower upgrade starts in castle age when u got more options and still is super op (im not arguing that). In early feudal instant +1+1 for towers would be huge. Believe it or not. Anyway that’s not gonna happen.
60hp does nothing. Keep in mind that a pikeman does +48 to elephants and a halberdier
Makes +60 as bonus damage. +120 hp means they can take 2 hits more from an halbedier. That’s not much, considering viets elephants doesn’t get blast furnace. Yes 440 hp elephant are really bulky, but they still doesn’t have that much attack.
Make the comparison in percentage withother similar techs like el dorado or zealotry and ypu’ll see that 100/120 extra hp for elephants it’s not that much
Just a advice, if admin of game can hear us 
You’re trying to assess the strength of that HP increase only by looking at it from the worst case scenario, while not taking into account how much this helps the elephant against literally every other unit (except monks). Elephants will always be a bad bet against halberdiers, and trying to optimize a tech to make a unit substantially better against its main counter will likely make it OP against everything else. And for what it’s worth, a fair amount of civs [even strong infantry civs like Malians, Aztecs, and Vikings] don’t get halberdier, so being able to take two more hits from pikemen is already worth a lot.
Scaling numbers like this doesn’t always give a realistic idea of what is balanced in a game like Age2. Even so, in Age2, you’ll notice that most HP bonuses are around 20% (which fits in with around 50-60 for the Elite Battle Elephant.), as anything much over that would be OP in most cases. Think the Vikings HP bonus, the Viets Archer Bonus, the Franks Cav bonus (which is partially offset by no bloodlines), all around 20%. For the exceptions you mentioned, 30% is definitely a little higher for the Mameluke, but it is balanced because of how much gold the unit costs, the Castle requirement, and its still relatively low HP for a cavalry unit (the same tech gives a smaller % increase to the camel line). And the El Dorado tech is more the exception to the rule in terms of %HP increase granted, mainly because the Elite Eagle has relatively low HP to begin with, so any increase is a larger percentage. If we applied the “Eagle logic” of +66% hp, we would get:
-Viking Champs with 116 HP
-Frank Paladins with 266 HP
-Elite War Elephants with 1016 HP
As you can see, this is not how HP is balanced in Age2. A HP increase of 20% or more on an already tanky unit like a battle elephant would require some exceptional justification, and would still probably be broken in the best of cases.
I mean, i’ve done it before instead of a knight rush in the castle age use two elephants and a couple archers or skirms. that’s all you need really. just protect those archers with the elephants
That’s exactly why I’ve been advocating for eco bonuses, not military bonuses.
If you play Death match. Or get infinite economy. Like sirwiedrich say. Skirmishers + halberdiers + some onager can kill all. It not op. It weak, if in castle Vietnamese never can use elephant it will die very soon with monk + spear, and if not free develop > 40 min you will never get any elephant( and you still easy be kill by enemy after get elephant with halberdiers + skirmishers)
I think + hp is not problem. Economy and improve power of rattan it the key really.
I have some ideas here to cover their late game disadvantages:
For the early game bonuses:
If they get just one or two bonuses above, I think it’d be really nice