Ideas to present to the devs for a full British re-work

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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If there was no budget, I think it would be cool if the devs could make lots of official mods that can be voted on by the community to determine which get introduced into the normal game. I guess we now get that a bit with the PuP but for the level of rework I’d want to do on this civ a whole separate mod would need to be made - tested against all the other civs for balancing reasons - and only then considered as an official update.

Ps. I’m sorry, by the way, I’ve been meaning to clear up that top post but I’ve got a load of exams coming up. I’ll streamline it all in a few weeks time :grin:

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In my honest opinion any Civ that has musketeer is a Simple beginner civ. As coin management is one of the more difficult features in the game. If you fast fortress you will need a lot of coin to make plenty of skirms midgame to late game. An example are dutch and Germans. Who may have reliance on Mercs or Gold heavy units. The thing is its not easy to succesfully make an Eco with them especially if you have poor resource management and micro in the first 10 minutes of the game. The need to make Banks can be kind of a nightmare and Uhlans costing 100 coin when you have no more shipments to send them is difficult if you have an actual desire to train them.

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I think a lot of people have the notion of the British being a beginner civ is because it’s used in the two tutorial matches. I think I learnt play skirmishes for the first time, on the original game, using the Spanish civ as that was the default civ when you selected skirmish game mode back then. It also helped as the units seemed similar to the ones used in the campaigns. I ended up playing loads of games as Spanish as I didn’t realise you could change the player 1 civ for a while :sweat_smile: :flushed: (I was about 8 / 9 years old at the time tho).

Now having played for well over a decade I recon the French civ is probably the best to learn on. You get a full unit roster (except grenadiers which aren’t even that important), a non-micro intensive economy with settlers that are strong enough to take a few hits if you leave them out in the open by accident, and you get a unique unit - the Cuirassier - which is the perfect unit for a beginner to spam.

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I think that the red coat is not much different from a standard musketeer. This unit should be more unique. in fact I think he should be the strongest musketeer in the entire game.

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47

We’ve had a lot of back and forth on this forum surrounding this topic. I’m personally very pro change. Maybe for ease sake, rework the Redcoat to be like a Nizam Fusilier, that benefits from different stances. Just make their over-all attack better but lessen their hit-points compared to a Nizam.

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48

Change the hussar with a light brigade cavalry unit that has a charge attack that increases its damage output but also makes them more vulnerable to damage and snaring. Can even have a card called Charge of the light brigade which further enhances them.

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49

I’d love to see English Civil War references. It was one of the most important times in British (specifically English) history.

References to Roundheads (Parlimentary), Cavaliers (Royals) and the eventual reforming of military forces with the New Model Army (when redcoats become default!).

A really interesting part of the civil war was the third ‘faction’ - the Clubmen. Clubmen were self-imposed local defence forces of towns and villages who did not want to face conscription or were sick of the plundering by both parties. So much so that these vigilantes banded together, normally led by gentry or a vicar who’s got them whipped in a rage would defend their local areas with improvised pole arms (sickles on poles), cudgels and flails. Perhaps we could have a ‘Clubmen band’ shipment which adds further Militimen ‘call to arms’ style buttons to the Town Center.

On the subject of Militias, moving on in time the British could also see another shipment that changes the current Militiamen to Fencibles. Fencibles unlike the nominated/ballot method of mustering Militia, were recruited like regular soldiers, though they were temporay and mostly were less effective to the aforementioned, but in game could be an improved Militiaman with some kind of ‘home-turf’ advantage when fighting near your buildings.

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They already had a re-work, two almost, the only thing is rangers need a change of name to “Green Jackets”.

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51

Maybe to the “95th Rifles” too

The British civ did have a bit of a change but it just involved adding one new unit and adding “ Greenwich Meantime” which to this day I don’t know how to use effectively. The devs have been really conservative when it has come to changes with the British civ. Rangers only got good in the last couple months or so. We want there to be an Ottoman level of reword for this civ. (and a couple others too but let’s keep focused on Brits here)

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Yep, I think conservative is the key word here.

I’d love some more unique paths to tread (with historical grounding of course!).

Example shipments:

Border Reivers
Adds Border Reiver Mercenaries to the Tavern.
In-game Border Reivers use the Stradiot model (reskinned to include a
Burgonet helmet). Slightly weaker than the aforementioned and functionally the same, they have a unique aura (‘Livestock Rustling’) that allows them to steal herdables in their vicinity as long as they outnumber any military units nearby.
Border Reivers were Scottish and English raiders along the border who fought as clans against each other, against the English, against the Scottish, against… anyone! They were frequently employed as mercenaries as they were excellent light horsemen on their small ‘nags’ or ponies. As well as border warfare their other common activity was stealing livestock from rivals
Their history

Woodbury Declaration [Age II]
Adds a special ‘militia’ type to the Church, called theClubman which are armed melee peasantry. These militia units can be trained like normal units (though always as a small batch) and have a reasonable melee attack as long as they are near your own buildings - when out in the open this attack dwindles down. The shipment also gives your Priests an aura (Vigilante Fervour!) which makes nearby Clubmen a little stronger in attack and health (again, when near buildings) as well as Settlers to a smaller degree. In-game they look similar to Settlers though wear white ribbands and are armed with crude polearms and cudgels.
During the English Civil War, alongside the Royalist and Parlimentary forces were a third, vigilante faction of Clubmen. Clubmen (as in a club/band) were a vigilante defense force comprising of town and village folk, led by a prominent member such as a local clergyman to provide resistance to either civil war side and their plundering.
History and info

Rocket’s Red Glare [Age III]
Swaps Caravels for Rocket Ships (Sloops modfied to fire Rockets - this historically is what British Rocket ships were)

London Lobsters
Add Parlimentary Cuirassers (weaker Black Rider model) to Tavern or Stables.
History and info

Workshop of the World
Ships an additional Factory - adds +1 to Factory limit.

Stephenson’s Rocket [Age IV]
Tradeposts removes Experience option however adds Experience in addition to selected resources.
History

British-Hanoverian ties [Age III]
Ships Royal Embassy with House of Hanover natives.

British Commonwealth [Age IV]
Ships a Garrison Wagon which builds the Garrison (reskinned Barracks). You can then select a historically-tied dominion (i.e. a Minor Civ or Main Civ that was at some point part of the empire) and gain a few auxillary unit types to be able train or ship in, Basilica-style.

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54

Whilst the Devs are on a roll with reskinning (and implementing the Highlanders as trainable as Blackwatch!):

Longbowmen

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Longbows should lose the ‘what-if’ style of their Imperial Age upgrade by way of their Tudor look. They lose their armour but get sweet Elizabethan threads.

Interestingly there’s a nice example of an English Caliverman. If Euro civs ever got Arquebusiers (extremely slim - however there was a good suggestion for it being a replacement card for archer units), this guy uses a standardised/lighter arquebusier (the Caliver) so would be a good fit.

Billman (see the the above image)
British do not have and probably don’t need Halberdiers, however it would be nice to have their British equivalent even as a limited shipment. The English were slow to adopt the Halberd as favoured their Billmen (armies of 'Bill & Bow). The use of the Bill polearm even went into the 1600s as it was used in overseas colonies and was also used as boarder-repelling weapons on board ships. If they were to make it in the game in any form, they could appear as weak but cheap Halberdiers.

Manor House
Mentioned on other threads, the Manor House could do with a reskin as a unique building!
I’ve suggested a name change too - to Cottages. Manor Houses weren’t pumped out, common houses - Cottages were. They were what the common folk lived in and incidentally a Manor House’s estate would also be home to Cottages too, as that is where their workforce would live.
These could progress from traditional wooden frame, thatched style cottages to this type of dwelling:

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These guys are clearly outlaws, not mercenaries. While livestock stealing would be interesting and thematic, it would be extremely busted against African civs who have it as a core mechanic.

Wouldn’t Harquibusiers make more sense for this unit? They’re the ones with the lobster-tailed pot helmet.

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Sorry, that’s incorrect. Border Reivers were both. Families and clans who’s not-quite-so-legal activities would be kept in the background whilst also feuding with rival clans within the largely lawless Borders and selling their services as soldiers.

English and Scottish militaries were always impressed with the tough and light Reiver horsemen so hired them as mercenaries in pretty much all their conflicts up until the union of crowns in 1606 (certainly well within AoE3 timeline as they were active before and between the 1500s-1600s). When James I took the crown he abolished border laws and terms which curtailed the Border Reivers, to which they either went proper outlaw (as Moss Troopers and often went to Ireland) or sell their mercenary services in Continental Europe

As for the Livestock rustling - sure, that would most likely be inbalanced to those civs and India. Probably plundering a small amount of resource upon sieging economic buildings would work better.

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I’m aware Harquebusiers are an English cav (and historically a whole type of cav), however they’re not the ‘Lobsters’. The Lobster refers to being fully armoured from top-to feet (in 1500s-1600s Cuirassier style)- not the lobster-tailed helmet (though some of the London Lobster did wear this). Lobsters were basically the last heavy, fully-armoured cav in the British Isles (used up until the end mid-17th century) - Black Rider style.

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This is not a particularly important one, so doesn’t matter too much :slight_smile:

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They were first and foremost outlaws even if they were also incidentally mercenaries. They’re already muddying the waters of what is a mercenary/outlaw/native (Arsonists are mercs that are actually outlaws and Crabats are outlaws that are actually mercs) and I’d prefer if they don’t make it worse. There are at least 4 maps for them to appear on so I’d say that’s enough for an outlaw.

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Sorry guys been meaning to come back to this topic for a while now but soo much as happened since I first made this thread.

The whole highlander thing has been cleared up pretty much with the only thing I’d change, is allowing the Scots Guards and Thin Red Line upgrades affect them too.

The few thematic things that are still missing from the British civ since the last update are references to these:

  • Industrial Revolution ( tech / build limit on factories)
  • Royal Navy ( more / better ships included some with rockets)
  • Manor House’s (should be changed to cottages and maybe reworked)
  • colonial troops ( Gurkhas and other commonwealth)

And that’s about it I think

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Yep, it really is great that they have implemented Highlanders for the Brits!

Yes I agree - it should be all British Musketeer types. What do you think about allowing Grenadiers benefit from it too, for the sake of all units that could be considered Line Infantry?

I agree - I would love to see these touched upon.

Industrial Revolution -
Yes, either a Industrial tech (for example: ‘Workshop of the World’ that effects output or allows two resource/production choices to be selected instead of the one) or a civ trait of having factories buildable/ +1 built limit. Just something!

It always seems strange that the nation that kick-started the Industrial Revolution way before the 1800s has no real reference to it in AoE3! There are even some civs/revs that add another factory.

Royal Navy
Again something else where we could at least show a little uniqueness. Maybe a way of showing how light and scrappy the Navy was during the earliest part of the early modern era followed by the again, unrepresented ‘Industrial Age’ Royal Navy, where it’s at the peak.

Race-Built Galleons
The Elizabethan and generally 1500s/early 1600s is not really represented, so how about a little Francis Drake and his Sea Dogs being referenced?

Their commonly used vessel was the Race-Built Galleon - much smaller and technically not as strong, however much faster and longer ranged than your typical Galleon.
In game, RB Galleons would physically look like smaller, cut down Galleons. They would lose to Galleons up close, however RB Galleons would have longer range and would be faster so potentially could kite them.

Rocket Ship
A Sloop style vessel that fires a barrage of rockets. Longer to load up than a Monitor, however has a far bigger area of effect and could possibly add a burning damage to buildings.

Modernisation
Not just for Brits, but for most Euros at the very least, this late-age tech replaces Caravels and Galleons with Sloops and Steamers

Colonial troops
Again, not just for Brits - rather for all Euros that used Auxillary troops from around the world.
Could require a Home City shipment for each specific region, however would enable a second line of Empire/Foreign Auxiliary unit at the Barracks or Stables.

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62

I think that all British ranged heavy infantry should be affect by the Thin Red Line (and all relevant HC cards). It would be nice if this also changed Grenadiers and highlanders default skin with the addition of a “red jacket” so they look more uniform with the brilliant looking Redcoat Musketeers.

So a home city card which could work nicely here is the having an infinite factory wagon card available that changes price like the capitol tech “spies” does. Sending this card for the first two times should be free like everyone else but after that it should cost 20 of each resource for every unit your opponent has. This would mean the maximum price it could cost in a 1v1 game is 4,000 food, plus 4,000 coin, plus 4,000 wood. The build limit on factories should remain two though, so you’d only use this card if you lost your a factory during the game.

Maybe have a Francis Drake card that allows the training of fire ships and privateer vessels from the dock.
I’d also like a Nelson reference too in the Industrial Age. Maybe some unique charged ability that allows for a quicker rate of fire or maybe ramming option.

At this stage I recon the best we will get is an infinite HC card that send a handful of reskinned Gurkhas and Jat Lancers.

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  1. I want British civ to get full access to training Irish Brigadier and Highlander in their Barracks and Forts. For example using some HC card or something else.
  2. “Gentlemen of the Pike” HC card should turn all Pikemen into Yeoman and replace them in Barracks and Forts. The Yeomen model appears in British Home City as a cosmetic - so the same model can be used.
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Like the Black Watch to the Highlanders, we could get the Inniskilling to the Irish Brigadier.

Their proper name was the 27th Inniskilling Regiment of Foot and served from the Battle of the Boyne (17th C) to Waterloo in the 19th century, later becoming part of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. Their game name should be either Inniskillings or The Skins (their nickname) as anything longer is a little too wordy and we’d also certainly want to avoid using Fusilier in anything other than the namesake!

As great as Yeoman are (are we talking Of The Guard or Warders as one was a royal body guard and one were the Beefeaters we recognise to day), they never really used Pikes to great extent (rather polearms/poleaxes) and were only present when royalty was around (so either guarding certain buildings or attending battle if royalty were taking part in it, which the Battle of Dettingen in 1743 was the last time that happened).

To be honest I was going to suggest when it’s sent that the Pikemen also change to New Model Army uniformed Pikes (Gentlemen of the Pike is a reference to the English Civil War era thinking that Pikes were a gentleman’s weapon as opposed to a musket), however there’s no stat change from other pikes so there’s no justification.

Personally I’d take Billmen from the 1500s-1600 as a reskinned Halberdier type as a new unit for British (English preferred these over halberds) via shipments, but even then it may well be novelty as the British have existed in AoE3 for some time without the need. (Though a reference would be nice!)

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