I think teamate must can see teams all!!! all of team! but its too much suck system!
listen! what is stupid market??? what is the market??? its suck! too much expensive builidng for vision.
vision is super important in team game. but we dont know team’s move we cant see what teamate do.
but we cant build market fast! cus enemy fast attack. teamate gg very soon. cus cant see! its not teamplay. this is 1vs1 and 1vs1. not 2vs2. we cant see eachother. team angry many time. team dont know my active. team type gg and out even i beat all enemy. cus team dont know team cant see. fog make team angry team misunderstand. fog make fight bad team. cant help cant see cant attack cant go. its not teamplay game. its almost 1vs1vs1vs1. not 2vs2. team angry even i help manytime. cus team cant see my help action!
i think market vision function is suck! vision is not ability vision is basic! like i can see my unit i can see my builidng. its basic. team is mine, i am team. what is the market? is market amazing building? why market have vision its suk…
I think teamate must can see teams all!!! all of team! but its too much suck system!
Just play as Portuguese if Market is too expensive to you. Or use flares. Or communicate in chat. Or in Discord. Or play Saracens and build the cheap market.
But the best option is to build the market anyway.
Also, like your posts, keep them coming.
Play in a lobby and choose the option to get shared vision between teammates.
Lmao!! XD thanks for the laughs, really funny post!
But i agree with L0omaster, Play portuguese or Saracens, problem solved on your end.
Our OP sure has a bit of a…weird way of communicating, but lets be honest: Cartho is such a weird thing.
Its a tech that does not change much in the game, provided you are in voicechat with your team - but its hugely important when playing with randoms. So its a tech that is not so much reliant on the game state, but rather on what 3rd party software you’re using. And thats just bad game design. Its better now than in AoK days when it was an acutaly tech, but its still annoying.
I think one of the few good changes that AoE2s succesors had was removing that weird requirement for teamgame play.
It’s unfun mechanic to not see what your teams Is doing an limiting team play.
Just give Portuguese a new, proper team onus and enable shares vision in ranked games
There is also language barrier sometimes, and while there are taunts, not many know all of them.
I also support shared allied vision since game start, sometimes also is not so easy to have a market in feudal, expecially if you’re rushing since you’d make smith and archery/stable.
I barely know anything outside of 1, 2, 11, 14, 30, and I have to check the order for 3-6. Not so much in terms of actual orders or anything.
Ok, look, calm down.
Market is not only important for vision. Market is very important for (a) being to trade resources and (b) Trade Carts, they are insanely powerful, in fact they are necessary, a must have, in team games. So no, you don’t build Market only for vision, clearly.
Too much expensive? For most civilizations the Market costs 175 wood. It costs as much as a Barrack or Stable, which you are going to build more than one of them. Compare that to the Castle. The Market’s cost is clearly balanced.
Team don’t know you can chat? Tell them, don’t leave, I’m winning. Also, you can build Market from Feudal Age. In fact, in order to advance to Castle Age you need 2 Feudal Age buildings, say Market & Blacksmith.
If you’re attacking the enemy (scout/archer rush) in Feudal without having a Market yet. The game is not winning, the game barely just began. And maybe if your teammate is losing, he is getting ganked by 2 players while you attack an empty base. So, no winning, too early to call that one out.
If your team is attacked in his base, you help him by going in his base. With troops to defend him. In which way he can see you even if you have no Market. If your teammate is getting killed and your “help” is riding the enemy, you are not helping, and your teammate is right.
I’m going to assume you’re not an experienced player, no offense intended, just my impression. Here is what you do:
- Dark Age: Build villagers all time, send them food & wood only.
- Dark/Feudal Age: When your sheeps are gone, build farms. When your bushes are gone, build farms.
- Feudal Age: Go for Gold & stone as well. Also keep building villagers all the time.
- Feudal Age: Decide whether you want to build Archery Range and go Archer rush or Sables and go Scout rush. They cost different resouces (wood & gold for archer; food for scouts) so see how you manage your villagers.
- Feudal Age: Build Market & Blacksmith, then you can go Castle Age.
- Castle Age: Create 2 more Town Centers away from your main town center. Train villagers from there too.
- Castle Age: To get to imperial either build a Castle or Monastery & University.
If you really hate the Market this much and want to go around it, you have 2 options:
- Play Saracens: Markets cost only 75 wood (so 100 less wood than with a generic civ)
- Play Portuguese: The Line of Sight is shared with the team from the beginning of the game.
Its kinda funny because i get the same impression from your post. Mostly because your advice in the end is mostly wrong, but also because you dont seem to get what OP is talking about (he is kinda hard to understand tbh).
Let me show you what i mean:
Thats actually wrong for a flank player. You dont need food in feudal, only a handful of farms to eventually go up to castle. And its also wrong for a pocket player, funny enough: You place farms BEFORE your sheep run out to invest your wood as early as possible.
Gold yes. Stone? Big nope.
This has to be decided with your team before the game starts. If you are the cav player and suddenly chose to build an Archery, you just lost the game.
As flank, you can hardly ever afford 3tc. Even as pocket, it is usually not immediatly affordable.
Market in feudal for Trade Carts? Nope. Trading res? Maybe in late feudal, but surely not on hitting feudal, you cant afford the 30%. So OP is actually right there, the only reason you would get a market early on (unless FC) is to get shared vision.
As flank you need 2 ranges and one blacksmith as early as possible, as well as some walls; as pocket, you need a stable and as many farms as you can get. Not getting the stable for an earlier market is not an option, as then you would have vision but nothing to actually send. Not building farm and getting market+stable is equaly bad, as then you dont have the food to produce from tc+stable.
But isn’t this the core problem? HOW THE HELL do i know he is attacked - without building a market first? Even if he takes the time to write and ping, its often very annoying to track down the enemy scs in his base because i basicially need a ping every few seconds to know where i send my units.
The difference between having or not having discord is just pretty big because of this weird requiriement, and i think teamgames would be better with shared vision.
it’s more complicated than that. if your teammate gets attacked it might mean that the enemy base is vacated and you can deal loads of damage there. you need to assess if you can deal damage faster than your ally is taking it
Yeah, give 2k level of advice to a guy who can’t properly communicate with his team.
Forget learning chess openings, let’s start with all cases of isolated pawns right away.
You know he is attacked because he usually messages you he is attacked. If he doesn’t, you’re probably playing in a very low elo. And I get if this would happen once or twice, but OP complains that everytime his teammates get angry at him because he won’t help. If that’s the case, I don’t think his teammates are the problem.
Coordonation & cooperation is part of the game. You have a chat, use it.
Not starting with shared vision is part of the appeal of the game. It enables the player to have even more tactical decisions.
Guys, please this is english forum but not everyone can communicate well in english.
The “use the chat” thing is useless if you and your teammates don’t talk the same language, it’s not like the whole world can talk english. OP is right, allied shared view is too valuable to lock it behind the market.
I’ve lost count of how many times I wrote something in the chat and nobody even answered, or answered something in a language I didn’t understand, and I didn’t have the time to pick up the phone and activate the video translator.
This can be mitigated by learning all the taunts, since some of them are really useful, but there are over one hundred of them!
i aggree yours! 100%! even we know all 1~100 communicate number and we know all good english, its not enough then see vision. some random player dont understand and dont trust thats chating and thats communicate number. even have more good comunication, not enough then see all vision. game is very very busy, cant chat cant comunication.
Fair point, but I think that is very common in low elo.
If that’s the case I think he has more to win by becoming better himself, there are just some people you can’t talk to and that’s just that. If there was shared vision since second 1 the game starts and he would be in the same team with those very same people, I don’t think there would be much cooperation either.
And even in that case, how many low elo cases are there when you lose a 2vs2 game simply because your teammate is very bad so he loses and resigns from feudal? I don’t know if there is an elo hell in AoE2 but my guess is not that many. It may happen 20% of the time, it may happen to the enemy team 20% of the time. But even in that case, I think the best advice to make the most out of it and have more to win is by getting good yourself.
The other players aren’t that great, so you can clearly significantly increase your chances just by getting good yourself.
If he is high elo. As I said, I doubt this communication issue is very high in high elo.
It may happen to you in 1 out of 100 matches. But most team fights high elo players are team fights high elo players because they know how to cooperate.
I see OP has a bad english himself, which is fine, I don’t judge him for that, but he seems to know enough English to talk and cooperate on a fundamental level “I’m being attacked?”, “need help”, “I need wood”, “How many resources you need?”, “attacked with spears” stuff like that.
You don’t need to spend your whole game chatting, this isn’t mIRC, but you can at least make a few sentences once in a while like “I’ll attack blue” just so you know what’s going on.
And I fully agree about the discord advantage, which is why I think premades get matchmaked with premades. But without a premade and players with bad communication, I don’t think voice chat would be much of an advantage over text chat.
One thing i would like helpful if there is a languange barrier that maybe taunts get translated into the languange the person is playing on so if an french person would recive the taunt in french for example so its easier
It’s already the case, the taunts will be displayed in your game’s language regardless of what language the sender is using.
Good to know still wierd that languange is such a barrier
Little side story, the 14 taunt in german actually has a slightly different translation (“Fang endlich an zu spielen” - “Start playing already!”), so when i first heard it in teamgames i actually thought the other guys were insulting me until i realized it was just meta to use this as a “go!” button.
However, despite what others wrote here, i dont think language is too much of a barrier. You need very little english to communicate whats needed.