If we compared shrines to factories,
Shrines are too much better compared to factories.
They can be built from age 1 and even by heroes; occupying your animal herd zone and as observations; they can send a card to lower the wood cost so much.
Even European civs still need 2 cards for factories.
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Idk, drongoâs gameplay shouldnât be used as a reference, becuase he is not that skilled. He basically just tries to bruteforce his win by spamming units.( which sweden can do without breaking a sweat!)
Watch mitoe and other higher level players play sweden, who actually try to make different units. Sweden is just untochable there.
Sweden player justify saying sweden has no answer to ranged cav. That is not a good âweaknessâ of civ, that is just a badly designed civ.
I feel like players feel sweden is balanced because generally they have inflated elo. Thus they end up playing against higher skilled player, who only beat them because they have higher apm/micro skill.
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Shrines canât match up to factories until the industrial age upgrade.
Factories also come in the Industrial Age, and by then Japanese will have full efficiency Shrines, faster than the Euro civs get 2 Factories.
Yabusame certainly needs a nerf, but it is ridiculous that Sweden is weak against light cavalry.
Yabusame are balanced, Drongo just did not make Hakapelits, which murder Yabusame.
Hakapelits are weak against yabusame⊠Theyâre heavy cavalry, soâŠ
They still murder Yabusame. Hakapelits can just focus down Yabusame so fast, it is not even funny.
Japan needs a huge mass of Yabusame, to stop Hakapelits.
Donât forget they are house, providing population too.
With one card they are even cheaper than normal house is ridiculous.
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To get rid of Yabusame, you only need a lot of Snaplock Carols and precise mouse clicks. And for Swedes itâs very easy.
Not every deck has Snaplock, and Drongo is too dependant on his Leather Cannons, which is what lost him the match.
Why arenât they using Snaplock? Itâs a must-have card to kill a light cavalry aiming at a cannons.
And if swedes have a falconet, there is no reason to train a leather cannon. It only seems that Drongo couldnât well play.
Because a lot of decks just put in Refrigeration, Royal Mint, Textile Mill, and a bunch of unit shipments.
A lot of players just seek to end the game in Industrial, so Economy cards are prized over Unit Upgrade cards.
This is a Swedes deck of 1800+ users that I know. This alone can assert that the Swedes are enough to cope with any situation. If you want to insert a mine card, just remove the Hakap card. In the first place, the game isnât long enough to go up to 4ages. Also, since the Swedes have a limit of 99 settlers, there is no problem with collecting resources in the late game.
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I take your point about Drongo but my point is that Drongo uses the torp boom to avoid needing to counter ranged cavalry and when he couldnât do that he was getting destroyed by them. The key idea is that a weakness to ranged cavalry isnât really relevant when the torp boom means most civs/players (given equal skills) arenât going to be able to have created a suitable mass before being hit by the mass that the torp boom supplied (which is how the torp boom compensates for the ranged cav issue).
Iâm a little confused about whether or not youâre saying the ranged cav weakness is real or is just a flaw in Drongoâs game? If it is real and balancing torps would make it a real issue, Iâll go back to an idea I floated on Twitch⊠have a card make jaegers cheaper. The issue with jaegers as a counter to ranged cavalry is usually framed as âthey canât trade pop efficiently (esp. compared to skirms)â, but if theyâre cheaper, losing a jaeger becomes less of a deal since replacing them is more viable.
Alternatively, buff grenadiers by giving them a multiplier against ranged cav and maybe some extra ranged resist (I know itâs already pretty good, but theyâre laughably bad in melee so I donât seen an issue with making it higher). They are legitimately terrible units. They cost 2 population, die in melee, arenât good enough at the literally one thing they do without more cards and researchers and to be even remotely useful in another context they need⊠yep, another card. Voila. A Swedish option for dealing with ranged cav (other than the xbow), that makes a unit a bit more useful for everyone.
I donât see that as an issue. Japanâs economy is fine. It can be raided just as well as any other economy, and shrines arenât that awesome unless you manage to fit 4 animals onto every shrine. Shrines cannot replace villagers on a particular resource like torps can, but rather complement them. Thatâs pretty difficult to do, since it requires 80 hunts being available, and on most maps thatâs just not feasible.
You also need to understand that japan canât hunt, and cherry + bushes arenât nearly as effective as hunting and rice paddies are worst than plantations, mills and estates. I rarely lose against Japan, but I also donât let them boom peacefully. I always harass, and I make it a priority to find their explorers and kill them. Spies are very good for this.
Japanâs main strength is that its units are powerful. Thatâs not really a problem of economy, but rather of individual units.
I think we are losing sight of whatâs important here. Auto gathering houses, as a concept, is fine. They become overpowered when this is combined with other things, which is exactly what happens with Sweden. I personally donât want them removed, and thankfully, the possibility of that happening is pretty remote. I like how in aoe3 each civilization has its unique way of economy booming, and I think this is pretty refreshing compared to other RTS games. Yes, it is a bit more difficult to balance, but I think this really sets aoe3 apart, and we shouldnât try to get that changed, as people will start complaining then about other boom mechanics, like banks, faster shipments, houses granting villigers or getting a new TC with each age up.
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Drongo just abuses the torps and Swedenâs very powerful age2. Iâve watched a few of his streams, and I wasnât particularly impressed.
Ranged cavalry shouldnât be a problem for Sweden. Thatâs why they have xbow and thatâs why they can train black riders and jaegers in unlimited numbers supported by their ridiculous economy. Sweden players just take forever to adapt and use all the units at their disposal.
I think torps can be left like they are, assuming all their units get a cost nerf. You shouldnât be able to boom and train units off 2 barracks/stables at the same time/
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Watching the 1000 dollar table topper match was enough proof that Sweden and Japan are overpowered and need to be adjusted.
Japan needs Ashigaru nerf to 4,25 speed, remove 50 food or wood from starting crates, remove free hitpoint regeneration on daimyo and Shogun.
Sweden needs big nerfs on torps, remove free advanced arsenal and add advanced arsenal card.
Remove 30% HP bonus on dominion and decrease torp hitpoints by 400.
Nerf svea Lifeguard.
Reduce max vill limit to 80
move the infantry gun upgrade card to age 4. Infantry gun are absolutely broken in age 3 and beat anything, even culverins. Just make 15 infantry guns which are cheap since they cost food and watch them destroy everything
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Only needs a Shrine nerf, Japan needs the strong Ashigaru, otherwise they will become really bad. Perhaps a max Vill reduction to 70.
No need, it is actually a good civ bonus, and it is not OP.
I agree, it is a decent nerf.
Svea Lifeguard are not an issue. No need to touch them.
Reduce to 70, if not 50.
I agree, it already saves you the upgrade cost. Age 3 Infantry Guns just blast through EVERYTHING.
So Iâm still a pretty crappy player despite all the years Iâve played the AOE3 game since launchâŠbut I can generally do well enough to win 50% of the time vs players Iâd say rank around 2nd LT to 1st LT based off the old ranking system. Around the 1100 - 1200 player rank? Partly because of my CarpalTunnel syndrome but Iâve been noticing really a lot of what everyone is saying about the Swedes and itâs made the game really not all that fun to play anymore. I generally play Spain, Incas, and Aztecs and no matter how hard I try I just canât beat them. For example Initially in the beginning with Incas Iâm collecting nothing but food after I place two kanchas and 10-11 vills produced I hit the age up by about 2:50 - 3:10 and when I arrive in second age I use the 600 food big button for the 5 spear men and send the 5 spear men card for a total of 10 then go raid Torps. That doesnât last long, by the time I maybe get 1 torp down heâs sending Caroleans after me and pushing me off torp sieging and well thatâs it. I tried the Swedes for myself and Iâve beaten better players just Torps coming and massing Caroleans. It has a huge unfair advantage. I dunno but I think Iâll just avoid players who play Swedes and use that kick button lol.
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