Not really since this is not quick match, you cant see your allies in the lobby most of the time. You get 1/2/3 question marks beside you. Lets say you are 1200s, you allies could very well be 700s, 1000s, 1200s or even 1700s.. Same thing with your opponents. You want to tell me you agreed to all those combinations of matchesbefore the game started? You can easily be in a game you will win 99% of the time if you dont troll and games you have 1% of winnig if the opponent doesnt do the same.
Also this arguments falls down flat to things like your ally walling you base off (sure trolling) or simply refusing to help you and elave you on your own, etc etc. You are leacing the game, you are loosing elo, its not liek you are dodging the system and getting away wirth it, you are agreeing to the consecuences of conceding the match.
You can have some very good games playing solo queu in team games but you also can have some horrible ones.
The thing with this idea is very easy to exploit. In any sort of game with this mechanic, like MOBAS theres a reason you can go as 4 players into matchmaking thats of groups of 5. Because you can alienate the other player and force it to stay. In AoM you can replicate this in any varation there is.
What happens in 2v2 if my ally wants to surrrender but i wanna stay? who gets decided that their vote matters more than the other person.
In 3v3 and 4v4 if you are a duo or a trio you can replicate the same thing i mentiones in Mobas, you can ignore a player, leave him to die on his own while you 2/3 are having fun doing whatever it is you are doing.
Theres no objective metric to say a person left for a âvalidâ orâinvalidâ reason, thats why we dicucussed timers so people at least playout X o Y amount of the game. Getting to as soon as you age to archaic at least so at least you tried.
Thast true, the casual aspect of AOM is very fun. I meant getting into RTS as a whole for player vs player its way more uphill than other genres.
I agree on this for sure. Some aspects dont feel like from a 2024 game.
ON this i disagree.This seems to be fundamental in RTS to me at least. Would rather fix how it affects your team mates that dont get resources or control of your units or anything really.
This is the worst yea. I imagined if you could take control of your allied units when they âleaveâ and control them they would have something to come back to. But since you loose your base as soon as you leave its really pointless most of the type even if you could come back to do so:
But games areâŠâŠ Not talking for AoM alone, but any RTS is like this and theres competitive RTS games.
Theres things you can compare it to that have other systems all we like but in the end its a very different game, which is why most of those systes would bring hurdes and issues that the game doesnt currently have.
If you find a metric you can use to determine if someone left for a âvalid reasonâ or an âinvalid oneâ be my guest, but you wont find any. Best you can do is put a subjectie time limit of forcing people to play until then, everything else we have discussed can leave to very easily exploiting it.
The thing is trolling happens in every game. The best way of dealing with this is through moderation and report system. Although I doubt they will add these stuff. But this doesnât justify to let people leave whenever they want. They can also add a rule that past 45 minute mark people can leave freely. or letting you create gates in your alliesâ walls.
People who queue for ranked games are intent on putting their best in line so the priority is with the guy who decides to stay. But as you said no one should sit through other people wasting time. the victory conditions need some tweaking like excluding air and naval units. It will rarely happen that not only your teammate but also your enemy wants to waste time. Usually the enemy will just come in and clean everything up quickly.
I play solo a lot and I can tell you my biggest anxiety is spawning as the teamâs pocket. Cause I know I will only be able to help one of them and the other will just type âTeam help maybe ?!?!â and then just leave. Leaving in this game is super easy. and most people will always take the easy way out.
As the player base grows the experience in team games will decline even harder as people will get more toxic.
That is true and no game does that. Even in league most players say that surrender vote should be removed from non-pro games cause you never know when your oponent is gonna make a mistake. This shows that even surrendering is not a âvalidâ reason for leaving. But people are the way they are. So the games are decided on the voting system. DotA has no surrender vote till this day and will severely punish any one who leaves or AFKs.
It wasnât always like this. When retold first launched the game actually kept TCs when people left. I do understand why they changed it but they can always bring it back if they ever add a reconnect feature.
The thing is these work more like bandages over a problem that has a fix. Could you elaborate more on why you disagree with people can come and go however they wish?
The thing is that they didnât really care about team games. they mostly focused on 1v1s. The fact that people leave whenever they wish is an actual issue ( a big one in fact).
Yesterday I played a game and I played somewhat poorly. I was 90% sure the we are going to lose. so out of hopelessness I started attacking and my enemy left cause he lost 6 villagers. after the game ended I checked the replay and I saw that my enemy was just so confused and in reality if he just attacked me he would have not only wiped me out but also wiped the other guy out as well.
This issue is happening way too often whether in my team or enemy team. And as long as leaving the game is as simple as hitting two buttons people will prefer that over actually trying to bring the game around.
Average game time is something around 25 min. Waiting that Long would be insane.
Heres a very common scenario, i go solo Q on tgs, i get a guy that decided he wants to do 3 tcs because he can. I get 2 vs 1 the whole game, my base is gone. Do i have to wait until he comes back to reality decides to look outside his base and see he no longer has an ally and is in a 2 vs 1 scenario hes not winning?
I get it, its Hard for some players you keep playing attention to the map and reacting. You often see games people camping their armies in the base while their allies is struggling. Its Hard to pay attention in mĂșltiple fronts.
Its Just wastiing peopleâ s time. If you force people to stay in a game they can Just afk till the timer or X Mark is reached. People would rather hop into another game than have to endure a match they dont wanna be in.
As a league player this is the first time i even hear of this idea as a serious thing. Ill take your Word for it but i dunno where does this majority even come from.
MOBAS are different. If you are getting ganked non stop in your lane you can leave it and hop into your allies you can force cooperation in a sense.
This they should have kept. Its baffling you dont have a reconect system in a 2024 game. If you want to use the tcs you could simply delete them yourself after taking control of your allies units.
Because in an RTS you dont have the same mechanism you have in the games that you mention have this feature.
A extreme example: you are in a solo lane in lol or dota and all 5 enemies decides to go there and gank you, and they keep ganking you. Your team is doing their thing, not caring about you at all and simply enjoying their free time.
You get to decide. You can keep going that lane and hope your team either comes to help or gains an advantage in some way or you can leave that lane and go else where. Force your opponent to engage in another place or simply leave the lane to die till your team notices and decides to do something about it. You have action to take to at least reduce the chances of feeding.
Theres no mongols in AoM, you cant pack up your tc towers and Buildings and move else were. You are stuck where you start the game. Theres no other action you can take. You either try defend your base or you loose it. Even things like moving all your villagers to you allies base or else where doesnt accomplish something remotely close to what you achive in a MOBA where loosing a tower is bad for the team but has no effect to your character.
Imagine if in a MOBA if you lost your laneâs tower your character lost an Ătem you had in your inventory and your current level was reduced by 2 ( you were level 6 now you are 4 and lost your ultimate) . You would now feel trapped by how much its affecting you to not recieve any help from your team, now your choices of roaming or moving out arent as viable since you Will fall behind if you lane is gone. Thats the context of Aom. The villagers units, Buildings you loose are gone and you are not getting them back.
You cant loose exp in a moba you cant loose your items. All you can loose is gold and even that is reduced the harsher the condition you are in. No such thing exista in RTS, is way more punishing.
It is there to stop from endless trolling. It will also need some tweaking but I have seen some people in LoL who were held hostage by trolls for 4 hoursâŠ. I donât want the game to be like that. We all have IRL problems a game shouldnât last more than an hour and a half.
What you can do is to retreat behind him and let the enemy come and finish him off⊠. If your base is fully gone You can somewhat build behind your ally, and if the enemy is taking too long to come attack then you will just fully rebuild and take them head on. I know what your saying but the truth is that resources in the map run out and eventually they will collide each other.
Although your point is very valid and it does feel very bad when your team mate is not able to help you (either because he is bad/ isnât aware/ or is just selfish) but there are ways around which as I said you can rebuild behind him. But when people can leave without any penalty then everyone will take the easy way out.
No one will play because their win chance isnât 100% and to be fair only rarely will some oneâs win chance will be 100%. Letâs not forget as I showed in 2 clips people are just leaving at the slightest amount of aggression. This needs to stop. Itâs not fun for any one.
Iâm so sorry I meant to write âmost PRO* playersâ. I have heard from a lot of influencers coaching sessions that they say like in ranked games donât surrender, only pros know when to surrender.
They indeed are but only to a certain degree. you can just take your villagers run behind ur ally. Rebuild behind them.
I know why they removed it. It actually cause lots of issues. Sometimes the TCs glitched and kept on producing villagers, Sometimes The TCs kept on shooting arrows, and also the main reasons was the thing that you mentioned.
But you can still relocate your villagers. I know it is not fun/optimal. But the reality is that every game some one has to die first. that doesnât mean they should just give up. specially if their team is doing well on the other side.
Thatâs actually a very good point. Maybe AoM does need some comeback mechanics. Like in LoL you get more gold the more the enemy is on killstreak. Adding something like that might be great. I have played both SC2 and AoE 4 (Although I played SC2 to a very small degree I played AoE 4 religously) AoM is the only game that I have seen comebacks happen. It is so fascinating to me. I donât know why maybe I was bad in all of those games.
The fact Iâm seeing so many comebacks in AoM really makes me believe that AoM is a very different game to others.
As i said sure you can abandona everything and cling to the hopes your ally does something. The thing its if im playing with a friend and got outskilled and lost my side sure. Ill cling and keep playing. But what is even the fun of keeping playing a game you were abandoned by a random guy and yoi are so fsr behind. The gameplay Just isnt fun for most people in those scenarios.
Those are not ways around it, those are ways despite it.
This is absurd. People play most matches. At least around my level people Will play any game they get unless its a clear stomp on the begging. We had a post recently by a player showing a game where his allĂes are closer to half his elo than to his opponents. Theres no fun in those games. Loosing for things outside of your reach.
Ahh i see, yea that one i heard.
Thats no were negar close. An example to mimic that would be what i said. You loose your lane tower? Well goodbye to your items and you loose some levels.
Go ahead and pick whats left and go to your ally that didnt bother to show.
Ahh the aom bugs, a tale as old as the game.
I think you are trying to brute force the âoptions you haveâ
Its not about being the first to loose, its about the reasoning behind it. If you lost the 1 vs 1 you are more than likely to try to hold on if you see your ally is ahead. You have fairy in them. If you got 2 vs 1,asked for help, got nothing, you see your ally barely there. Its valid imo to Just leave. You dont have to play till the Last unit or until someone else says so.
Its a game first and foremost.
Comebacks happen in all games. Any RTS tournament has comebacks. Aom Just tends to beore flashy due to god powers and score showing hol something shifts around so is way more telling. But comebacks happen in all games.
It also affects the levels were play at. The lower the level the more common comebacks are since people struggle with basic things. Kind of like chess, begginers should always play to the end since your opponent can blunder at any time. The better you get at the game the better your opponents become and the less likely those blunders happen.
AoM is a very snowball game thats very easy to exploit and advantage if you are there to do it. You can easily sin a game in 2 clicks and sure that means at lower levels you can always come around with people having bad macro, floodiing resources, bad choices, bad micro.
But on higher levels you Just win. Some matchups are whoever wins the first fight takes the game. If we look norse mirror matches most of them Last less than 15-12 mins, you get so ahead out of a god power or fight that you simply win.
Aoe IV for instance is less snowball in that sense, seings dont happen like in Aom.
The same thing applies to league. I personally enjoy while playing at a disadvantage and then slowly climbing up and turning the tide (Although even I recognise that sometimes the game is just lost and there is no point in going forward). It is definetly not perfect but it is better than the alternative that is every one quitting the moment they lose a villager.
Every thing you said goes the same with other competitive team work based games. Unfortunately sometimes you will not have good teammates. But the problem with AoM is that in other games there is a good chance that the enemy also has someone who is not good at the game. unfortunately AoM has sucha a small player base that it isnât guaranteed how the match has been balanced.
When we play a ranked game we try to play our best. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnât. But it is not for us to decide whether losing 3 villagers is game ending, sure we are at a disadvantage now but it isnât game ending. right now with the current system the guy who left decided on behalf of his entire team that the game is lost because he lost 3 villagers.
Yea maybe like not every one but mostly people will always prefer to go another game rather than worker harder to bring the game around. Quitting is just way too easy in AoM.
The example you gave was a very extreme situation and to that extreme situation I gave an extreme answerâŠ. It isnât perfect but also conditions in that example arenât fun either. We are making a decsion between bad and worse. Right now even the quit button in AoM isnât greyed out. people just straight out leave.
When I was a kid I used to log in LoL and then quit when kept I was losing the game cause I just kept dying and I was a kid I didnât know that it isnât right to leave my team like that I had only played on public Garena servers and I used to quit all the time on that (every one did). and then one day I noticed that I got a 24 hour ban and I realized that it isnât the right thing to do.
That is how AoM is like now. In garena WC3 games used to start like 5v5 and always end up like 2v3 cause every one just left. You know which servers people didnât left? the servers that had moderators who banned people who left. that brought a sense of security for every one and also made playing late game strategies actually viable.
It is true that we canât force any one to keep on playing when they donât want to anymore. People will find all sorts of ways to dodge this. Some AFK, some throw, some just kind of hang around. But right now how AoM is just like cs2 casual servers. People just come take a look around and then leave.
I am not gonna talk about thisâŠ. I never experienced any comebacks in all of my 600 h hour of playing it. maybe it has changed recently. The only difference was that in AoE IV you lose slowly. These we are all my subjective feelings.
Thats the thing, it doesnt. You can leave the lane and move else were. Your character isnt getting weaker. You wont loose exp you dont loose your items. Thats what happens in aom.. If you loose your base you start from scratch. Thats a very important difference.
Which is why not RTS has that feature.
Yes, yes it is, every player can leave the game at any moment they Want.
You are saying this as if in aom or any other RTS game, take aoe warcraft, starcraft. Thats not what happens. People can leave the game at any point and they do and it works.
You can change it by any number of players and the heart of it is the same. If you are 1 vs 1 in a MOBA. You are getting ganked and your team isnt helping you cant rotate yourself, you can leave your lane. Thats not a thing in any RTS.
You arent getting your base back, you aint getting your units back. If you abandon your base and move else where you are giving up a whole lot more than Just moving from top lane to bot lane in Lol.
If any MOBA had a system they if you kill someone they respawn and loose levels you would see the same dybamic. People would leave matches as soon as they see their gameplay being reduced to scraps because that isnt fun.
Sure. I do find it off you havent seen a single comeback in an aoe game. But lets agree to disagree on that.
Locking someone in a cage with a loser isnât a solution either. You have absolutely no respect for personal freedom))))
Iâll give my final opinion. A player who loses must lose ELO. Thatâs all. Thatâs enough.
Also in AoM You wonât lose your age ups, You wonât lose your upgrades and you wonât lose the villagers that you saved. Itâs not all bad in LoL if you leave your lane you also lose your exp, farm etc⊠. Look Iâm not saying it is all good.
Most of the people who leave in ranked games havenât lost their TC yet. They are like yea I donât like playinkg against samurais/ Odin Raiding cavalries. They are not even trying. They just go by their feelings.
Which is why RTS is so unpopular.
that is exactly why other competitive games have penalties for people who leave.
The whole RTS genre is dying. Why should we repeat the same mistakes they did? The amount of all RTS PVP players in the world is a fraction of CS2. I also told you why they donât do it. Cause they donât care about team games. They all prioritize 1v1s.
Iâm not saying AoM should move on from 1v1s and start balancing games around team games. Iâm just saying when people leave when ever they want you might as well just stop playing, whatâs the point? people are already leaving games that they could have won. Some people just come in and then leave cause they saw they donât like their god picks.
agreed. Are you talking about 1v1s or team games? I never play 1v1 in any game.
Absolutely but the problem is the player number is so low that it is near impossible to make a balanced match. All of my games either Iâm stomping or Iâm getting stomped. There is no in between.
Iâm not saying you will win every game if you donât leave. But you will win some of them. Is it possible for you to upload your replay?
Then why is it ok when every other game locks you in?
BTW Iâm not saying that the only solution to this is surrender vote. If any one has any better opinions please share. Iâm just sharing my experience from playing all competitive team games.
I donât actually but thatâs not the point. The point is why is it ok for you when some one leaves the game cause they lost 3 villagers. He just cost me my elo. I could have carried him. I donât want to lose to people who are way worse than me.
I didnât get what you said here.
Honestly I never thought I wonât have a single person who supports my view xDD. I have stopped playing alone any more But it is sad that solo team ranked games will die. AoM had lots of potential.
EDIT: I asked one of my friends, Broken Arrow does ban you if you leave without surrendering. Although I donât know if it counts as RTS or not.
This to me seems to bereaching, you fall so far behind if you loose you base in an RTS. This compared to loosing 1-2-3 towers. Even loosing rax you dont feel the same.
Not really, you can make up for it by succesful ganks, which is not a thing in RTS. And that is they key point im trying to make. Thes plays and desicions you can take to make your game better. The equivalent of the examples you give (Just move all your vilagers to you allies base) is for your character not to leave your center base in a MOBA so you dont die. Theres no fun in that, you arent doing much, just existing getting either passive exp or very close jungle camps. No one would stay in matches if thats the kind of gameplay you were forced to do.
We are dodging the fact that your âbaseâ in a MOBA game doesnt affect you, the tower isnt yours, you dont have gold or resources bound to it. Its the same as in AOM if your ally is loosing villagers or military units. Sure it affects your team as a whole, but it doesnt affect your economy directly you dont directly feel the impact of it. Suddenly you are not getting less resources, your character isnt any weaker, etc.
I wouldnt really pinpoint that as the main reason. I think theres several things that make it unpopular. Games shifted more towards fast pacing. Easy access. RTS have a lot more knowledge gatekepping than more popular games. Take RPGs/MMORPG for example, they also became niche, its too much of an investment to get going for the new player to get into and stay, compared to other games when you are 1-2 clicks away from a match.
why different competitve games, since once again, mechanics are different, context is different. You are taking the fact that both are games to justify that they are the same, when they are far from it.
The balance is always in 1vs1. Yout dont see LoL balancing the whole game around ARAM or other side modes. Theres a main gameplay mode and the other things are secondary.
Both. Its way more frequent on Tgs than on 1vs1. Way more variables than can lead to plays or mistakes being made.
Which is exactly why forcing people ot stay in a unbalanced game is a bad idea IMO. IF we had LoL player base sure, because most matches would make sense, players would be from similar levels. Here you easily can get Pro players in the same team as a guy that plays with his mouse only. And its not to throw hate on the second guy, but those 2 people enjoy different aspects of the game and expect different matches.
Why would you as a good player stay in a game that just adds mechanics to make matches become a chore than being able to skip to the ones you enjoy?
Yeah, itâs the same for me. In every 3v3 game, there are guys with 600-700 elo, and only on one team. It feels like there are only 10 people playing the game, not 3,000.
This game is from a few days ago. I donât have a replay.
If youâre interested, their entire team played better than my teammates.
I just want to say that people with a ELO above 1000 donât quit games. They take their vills and rebuild their base.
Because this problem can only be solved by a larger number of players.
I mean, thereâs already a sanction. A sanction for defeat. He left, which means he lost. Everythingâs fine.
Edited:
Regarding people who just leave at start. What kind of punishment should they receive? You canât play for one hour? Total bullshit. We need a Moron pool like in Dota. If you leave with no reason, play with others like you. Theyâll even have their own competitions. Whoever leaves first? With a $10,000 prize pool.
I agree that compared to MOBAs you fall more behind. But your not dead yet. You can still contribute to the team. And to be honest I have died too many times in AoM. building 3 village centers makes u come back in 5 minutes.
You can make up by raiding.
I agree itâs not fun. But if this keeps happening way too often either there is a problem with game design or you are doing something wrong. But right now every one is leaving every match. Itâs just too easy to leave rather than stay and fight.
But it is a big reason. There are problems with the âclassical base building RTS designâ and that does contribute. but of the main issues is that they have left all team game modes to rot. Majority of the new players donât like playing alone. thatâ why the type of players you encounter in team games and 1v1s are wildly different. I would like to know your opinion too but to me it seems that you encounter a different type of âlow level playerâ in team games compared to 1v1s.
But the point is in RTS You actually DO ALOT just by not dying. Cause the enemy knows no matter what you will catch up if they donât kill you. At certain points even a dead player will get all of the available upgrades.
Yes I do agree that losing your base is harsher in AoM compared to league. To be fair AoM is lot harder than league. So it even is more heartbreking to die in AoM compared to league since you put so many actions in to your base.
But it still remains that you are not completely out yet. You can do certain stuff and if they fail in eliminating you in time you will catch up since at some point the upgrades end and also you donât need all upgrades to be useful just some of the important ones will do.
This isnât something realted to mechanics. This something related to âhow much you want your player base to take your competitive mode seriouslyâ. Right now there is no point in playing solo team games. My friend also said this, There is no point in being competitive if everyone is gonna treat the game like a casual match in cs.
When I was low Elo in cs I always lost my first 5 rounds because new players donât know how economy in CS works and they just buy every round. While used to save my money to buy better weapons. And in the end I ended up carrying the team. We won and every one was happy.
But would happen if they could leave because the game respects their personal freedom? I would never be able to carry a 4v5 game. loss after loss with no comebacks. Iâm not boasting my self. Iâm talking about the most low tier of CS.
If they had done these things in no world would the player base become this low. These are just basics things expected from any game which takes it self seriously.
I see. We will discuss this later though I like your point of view.
This is not a mechanic to make a game into a chore. It is a mechanic to make comebacks more probable.
I also found some games that was so easy and it could have been made more balanced if simply the game just swapped me over to the other teamâŠ. Iâm not saying we would have won but the game could have been a lot more balanced.
The fact that game lasted 40 minutes long shows that it wasnât a stomp. Every one got to play at least till age 4. My games end in 10 minutes.
The moment that I get the desync error is the frame that Tsukiyomi leaves. BRO NOTHING HAS HAPPENED YET FFS. THEY HAVENâT EVEN ATTACKED A SINGLE VILLAGER. I WAS WINNING MY SIDE I COULD HAVE CARRIED THAT GAME.
The funny thing is odin decided to raid my base after he left and I smoked his army just to show him he ainât got nothing on me.
Actually there was a time that I was like 1300 and yes I did feel that people donât leave. but then my friend came and we started losing and now Iâm in hell. These people literally donât like getting carried.
Player numbers will increase if they keep on doing what they are doing and just implementing the basics required for an online game!
I do agree that DotA has a very nice punishment system. the only bad thing about it is that it doesnât ban racism which is very weird xD.
I guess theres the crux of the issue. From my experience and the player base i encounter skill wise this is Just not the case. You are for all intends and purposes dead. You can make an example that if you have a villager and 50 wood you can gather wood then make a market, trade, then get a TC and rebuild but thats not really happening.
If the enemy sits iddle sure any thing is posible. If they Just bank 2k resources sure its posible. But the competent enemies i get simply move to the other plays and destroy him.
I get the point of anything is a comeback in low levels, and its true. But thats simply not the case the upper we go.
Matches are not balanced. Why? Low player base. You get grouped up with wjoeve is playing. None of this stomp or be stomp scenarios would happen nearly as often if the game had more players to sort into games.
The type of player that you talk about that cant hable loosing 1-2 villagers early is prob not the player type that is reaching higher Elos or putting early aggresion themselves. And they are matches against players that do.
Ofc, 100%. The tg only players from low levels to what i have seen and played against dont enjoy the fast packed aggresion that 1 vs 1 can bring. They rather turtle, boom and play for big flashy fights.
Funnily enough tgs when played âmetaâ are a lot more aggresive than 1 vs 1 the upper the Elo braket you go.
Against any decent player you are not catching up. You are relying on the enemy making basic mistakes which im sure happen a lot on lower levels, but against competente ones it doesnt.
Even in the Best case of that scenario. You sabes every single one of your villagers you simply lost the âbaseâ
For every 15 seconds that pass you are a villager less than your opponent. You will also be how ever much the tc Costs behind depending on the civ you play.
We experience different scenarios branching from this example.
This is kinda true but it also is a wall going solo with how unbalanced matches you can get. It a lot more effort and not in the fun challenging kind of way.
Again, from all the things aom has to improve i would reason this very low on reasons it âlostâ players. But thats another topic.
Depends on were you see this. At the level in which anything can turn into a comeback, kinda. At the level i which you lost, you are just trapped in the game.
Iâm not quite sure what game youâre talking about, but thereâs still no replay, and yes, Thor won 1v3. But then again, if you look at the stats, Iâm the only one on my team who could have beaten him in that match.
This is the case with all RTS now. If you want normal games, you need to go above 1100 elo. All the games are normal there. And all the crazy ones gather at the bottom. Thereâs nothing you can do about it.
Iâd also like to add that I agree with @Cajocu01 that a comeback is only possible if your opponent makes a mistake. And I wouldnât count on it. The chance is no more than 30%. Most comebacks happen because the winning opponent relaxed, exposed their entire army to implosion or tornado, and lost the initiative.
What you call a comeback is simply an equal game. When both sides have lost one player. You demolished the enemyâs base, and the enemy demolished your allyâs base. The game continues 2.15 vs. 2.15. Thatâs not a comeback.
The fact that you want to ban racism at the rule level once again shows that you do not respect personal freedom)))
Please watch the video that I posted. That is crux of the issue. You really think this is ok? The thing that you are pointing is one thing but the thing that solo TG players are dealing with is unacceptable. What was the point of me waiting 6 minutes in queue?? just to watch my team mate leave cause he saw 7 cavalry units?
This will happen regardless there is surrender vote or not. You will just waste 5 more minutes till your team surrenders. but instead if there is a surrender mechanic you will start winning many more games that you thought were lost + you will get indescribable rush of adrenaline of comeback. Iâm not saying it will happen every game. but it will happen quite often enough.
And another important thing is if you carry your teammates they will realize the potential that the game has and will try to be like you.
This thing is happening in matches that even are balanced. Itâs a 3v3 match There is a low level player in my team and there is a low level player in the other team. My low level player leaves cause he lost 3 villagers, I have to also surrender now cause maybe I can fight 2.5vs3 but I defnetly cannot carry 2v3.
Thatâs what Iâm trying to say. The only games who succeed are the ones who appeal to casuals. And TGs are where the most casuals are. It shouldnât be abandoned like this.
If he is forced into the game the chances are that he will see someone on his team that knows how to handle early aggression. He will watch from him and learn.
You are giving way too much credit. They are not pros. They donât play the game for a living. Why shouldnât they also make mistakes? BTW there is a limit to the upgrades and civilian units. you will catch up in 10 minutes max. ALthough 10 minutes is alot of time in AoM since the game is more fast paced than other RTS but I was considering the worst case scenario.
It is just not winning. yes the matchmaking is bad. but what is happening right now is even making it worse. People just pick Odin rush some cavalry and then win cause some one on the other team decided that this is too much.
If your match is high level â Your friend will help u rebuild.
If the match is low level â You will rebuild and make a comeback.
If the match is unbalanced â Your enemy will wipe you and your team mate in less than 15 minutes.
If there is no surrender condition the first two scenarios will never happen. Plus a lot of other issues.
The screenshot that you posted says the game lasted 40 minutes so it was a back and forth game. Thatâs the fun part of the game.
No Broken Arrow is a team based RTS that bans people who leave without surrendering. RTS games in the past didnât care about team games. But now time has changed. Team games need to be taken seriously cause they are a lot of fun and will drive in many dedicated players.
I donât agree with that but thatâs a topic for another time. Plus AoM is such a difficult game to play perfectly that it is near impossible to not make mistakes. Even pros make mistakes.
I Actually posted a comeback of mine a very long time ago in this topic. Unfortunately it wonât play with the new versions But I lost my base completely and I had move behind one of my allies. I was rushed 2v1. If it was any person other than me they would have left the moment they saw they are being 2v1âd.
As I said I donât believe in unlimited personal freedom. Although banning people for sluring might be too much. But DotA used ban my friend who kept playing techies (before the rework) and the games would last 4 hrs. Was kind of weird cause thatâs what techies was designed for xD.
I am super glad that they actually take a look at reports. I thought they donât function I will start reporting from now on.
I did, yeac its not ok. People leaving for no apparent reason so early. That being said i woudlnt balance that over getting trapped in a game.
Same as trolling or afking or etc.
You are being very possitive on this. Usually those players that wont help you usuaully also play till their dying breath.
I admire your optimisim that it will all heal players mentalities. If that was the case they would ask for advice in game. Which peole dont. The amount of players that just hop into games and will ignore anything coming from their teamates is amazing to me.
This is why i would rather favor asystem that allows to control the units and resoruces fo the player that left. GIves the est of 2 worlds. Allows to keep playing for those that want and lets people leave when they want. I wold give them a loss still even if their team wins thou so its not rewarded behavior.
I mean most casuals play vs AI and that is getting tons of love with all the personalities. Gauntlet, badges, protraits etc.
You are giving too much credit. If they were that invested in the game they would be better. Its not hard to climb after getting knowledge. If they truly wanted to know they would ask for the answer which is way easier than trying to figure everything solo. which if they wanted they could 100% without even needing to play with all the available media the game has in the internet.
Theres mistakes from mistakes. Im talking about very basic things. If you ere copetent enough to raid/raid 1 opponent into oblivion while his teamate watches. You are very capable of doing the same thing again to the player next to it.
You dont have to earn money off this game to reach a level in which some mistakes simply dont occur much if ever.
Yea⊠thats not happening. At all. Theres just too much loss from loosing all your base and buildings. Even in the best case scenario that you didnt loose a single villager you are way to behind to have any decent impact for the next 5-8 minutes while you rebuild a tc, houses for pop, military buildings and actually have your villagers get to the place you are gonna build at.
Its very hard to hold a 2v1 that early in the game. Unless their side is hurt by your ally raiding or sth else (in which case he was doing something so its not velevant to this example) You ar enot coming back in a match between competent players.
WHAT?? No. If you are high level you help your ally before it gets there. Thats a point of little to no return.
This maybe.
Even faster but sure.
currently yout can skip the 3rd from happening always and simply focus on the ones worth playing.
Theres mistakes from mistakes. You dont see for example people hoarding 2K food wood and gold in high klevle games without doing anything about it. Sure you might find a couple of hagems where one resource was badly managed but its not the norm. Unlike i low levle elos where every game you see theres banking resources and just staying with them for a while without advancing, upgrading, making stuff, etc.
Your video looks like a setup))) However, if I take your word for it, it was an experienced player who saw what I showed in another thread. He saw the cavalry and realized his vehicle was about to be destroyed. So he left immediately. Yes, thatâs true.
I believe that any kind of force will have an even greater negative impact on player numbers.
And I am 100% sure that your comrades suppressed one of the opponents in the same way.
What Elo do you play?
It would have worked exactly in that match from the my screenshot. The guy on Tor would have just won the game 15 minutes earlier.
You wonât be trapped in every game, just some of them. Most people will realise that the game is over and surrender at 10 minutes mark or 15.
Trolling is already happening. AFKing will happen more if there is surrender vote. As long as the enemy isnât aware that my mate is AFK and is not rebuilding Iâm fine with that. The only way to combat trolling is by human moderation. Which is ok if we donât have. I think that would be too much to ask.
People who donât help are either bad/selfish. If they are bad then they will die quickly. If they are selfish they are doomed to lose all of their team games. Still having a surrender obligation in the game wonât make the situation worse than it is.
Look at these games that force people, they are the only ones that have survived in this market. The problem that retold has is that it has no âreal casualâ game mode. Even in casual matches if you leave you are still ruining other peopleâs experience. So in a way casual is just a worse version of ranked mode.
The first step required for making a good competition is to make sure every one will play their best to the very end. I am not saying people in AoM should play untill the last roc that they hid over a mountain dies, But they should play till all of their team mates fall.
Also being âtrapped in a gameâ wonât always happen. Most people will be on your side and the game will end in a surrender. And then we are left with certain scenarios that some one is hiding his staphylion bird over a forest which is honestly gameâs problem not the problem of surrender option. This sort of stuff should not count towards victory condition.
Absolutely not. I was the first one who died. I was oranoos and did doube TC. The moment my TC finished up they started attacking me. I will try to see If i can downgrade my game so I can show you the whole game but for now I have this clip from that game (Iâm so glad that I saved this lol):
I know it is not much. But as you can see in the mini map I am the only one who is being attacked here. Our red actually played super passive and I was so worried that he will be the guy to leave cause I knew the enemy on his side was booming. Isnât it obnoxious? That I should be worried that my team mate will leave because I am under pressure? It actually happens a lot where I am the flank and being constantly raided by 2 people and then my pocket decided to leave cause he says âWhy no build units?â.
I donât know I find AoM to be too difficult to not make mistakesâŠ.
Yea sure I was talking about worst case scenarios like when your friend goes 2 TC obviously he wonât have army for a little while and if your enemy 2v1 rushes you, You will die. But your mate will be able to push them back.
How do you know which ones are worth playing? why should we encourage players to look at elo differences rather than trying to play to the best of their abbilities. Also shouldnât players have a chance to ATLEAST see an age 4 mythical unit? As you saw in the video with this situation it will only get worse and worse.
What do you mean by setup? Like I told people to come and do stuff?
I canât remember that match but I think I was 1200. not sure
This system should had been in the game when it was released. this goes to show how much they donât care about creating a fair environment for team games. But still this solution remains only as of a bandage solution in my opinion. It still doesnât solve the issue that ranked team games are like casual CS2 matches. People just come and go. Whatâs the point playing a casual match in CS2 seriously.
The chat in this is the worst. Language barriers. The shear amount of information needed to play this game at itâs most basic level. This game really needs some communication overhaul. You canât blame people for not wanting to learn in the middle of a ranked match.
Honestly I have concluded that I should never chat in TGs. I used to give some tips to newbies. Just for them to call me a backseat gamer and leave the game. I only focus on playing as good as I can now. Kind of works ok. Unfortunately this seems to be the only way.
