I really dont understand this point. Most of the reasons can be turned around and be used to argue random civ should be the default. All random civs are already rare. Too rare.
I prefer random civ games, because pick civ give stale meta. It is always the same and you will see the same civs over and over again. Why use just a few civs if you also can use all? Why even borthering about adding more civs if a few are used every time?
Random civ force you think on the spot. During the game. Adaptability will be a much bigger factor. For me this is a pro and not a con.
The current system is already in favor of civ picking. I dont see why we have to give them even more the upper hand.
Totally agree here bc it feels stale knowing that picking just gonna op for the strongest combo and honestly adaptability is key as for playing the game even with random civ
The key thing here is that you can go random civ if you want to, you have a choice. Why take away the choice from others and force them to go random? You are basically forcing others to play the way you want to rather than giving them the choice to play how they want to.
If you want to play a specific way where everyone has to go random, the solution to that is to host your own game in the lobby browser. That way, people who want to can choose to play your way by joining the game. It’s greedy to say “I like going random so I want everyone to have to go random.”
There are other ways than “all players random civ” to prevent the usual OP combos:
random player position
pick & ban phase
ban 5 most picked flank civs and 5 most picked pocket civs
all players must either go random civ or randon position.
And I dont see why random picks would make the meta less stale. I mainly know the meta from pros and tend to copy it no matter what civ I play with. If I randomed Koreans pocket I would still go scouts into knights, and if I randomed Franks flank I would still go archers into xbows…
Unless I see what pros go for, I will keep the “boring meta”. And I remember a really nice 2v2 tournament from Lidakor (I think it was called “Two pools”) where half of your civs where picked by your opponent. There Nili still went Celts xbows and someone went Teutons xbows as well. So boring meta on open maps as well…
I would love to see a 3v3 or 4v4 tournament where players pick their civs and their opponents pick the position (hence force Britons pocket and Franks flank).
Bad argument, this goes both way: everyone can say “let set my way as standard, those who do not want it go to lobbies”.
It seens that the key arguments are either
(1) to avoid meta xbow/knight play on open maps, or
(2) to avoid overpicked civs, or
(3) because it is more fun to have a random civ and not being at a disadvantage due to going against master of their iwn civ.
For (1) random shouldnt impact much at mid to high elo
For (2) I think it works but there are “better” ways to achieve it, ie. ways making people more happy while decreasing the chance of facing Franks/Britons (as picking is the stadard if half of the players refuse to go random).
I personally would find it awesome if some bans were possible, and hilarious if for once some players would ask for a nerf for their own civ so that their civ get less banned (but I think it wont happen, and players would just cry on forums and request to remove bans).
For (3) I think it is psychological. And it is a little weird because some players are better than other at playing different civ. Whether or not they should be rewarded with higher Elo for it is debattable. As in the end, we should rather want well balanced games, and having players overperforming with knight civs and underperforming with archer civs shoukd mainly gives him unbalanced games.
Bad argument, this goes both way: everyone can say “let set my way as standard, those who do not want it go to lobbies”
Um no. You’re confused, no one is saying pick civ is the “standard” or even mandatory. Go random civ if YOU want to. The point is about forcing others to play a certain way. Players that want to go random for their civ are not prevented from doing that by players choosing a civ.
This is simple. If you want to go random, do so and accept the consequences of your choice to play how you want to play. Let others do the same if they want to choose their civ.
If you don’t like the way those games work and you want to try and force people into a different play style, the lobby browser is the answer. Trust me, we did exactly that for years in the Voobly days. It is totally doable.
Well, you dont seem to understand the concept of the rule of law. E.g.: If the majority votes on burning your house down its perfectly democratic but not fair to the individual, thats why rule of law is such an important issue.
Back to the specific topic, indeed AoE 2 is the only game that forces players into a random loadout, civilization or whatever, this is especially problematic if you have DLC civs for which players spend money.
The main argument for the “force random on everybody” is also not really adressing the right issue. If there would be such an oppressive meta picking online, then this would be a sign of horrible balancing, which I really dont encounter all that often, its more of a higher elo thing.
Which would also hint at a compromise: Why dont link the random civ dictate to a certain higher elo cap where the meta actually plays a more dominant role ?
Well its obvious the most picked civs on maps they fit in are the higher up once and by a demographic it also fits.since it wouldt make sense to pick a weaker one on a map
I do agree tho forcing random wouldt be an solution. But with the whole procentage thing of winnrate it is hard to properly buff lower wr
In ranked, this can only happen if someone on your team has the all-random button selected - it requires a strict majority (so 2/2, 3/4, 4/6, or 5/8). If none of your allies have the button selected, then you’ll all play whatever civ you selected. So in team games, you can stop it by asking your allies to deselect the random button. If that doesn’t work, then you can choose not to play with them if you feel so strongly on the matter (though I’d recommend that for future games rather than dropping out of the game you’re queued into as a courtesy to your opponents).