If you could never reach mortars. The Fort even with 100k HP is useless
Imo the 51000 hp fort is an issu. How many rts have the option to buff your defensive building by ⊠750% ? How that can be healthy in game, where you can just build, for 700 res, something with 51000 hp, can hit hard, be furtif (lol wtf, they want this game more historical accurracy but one of the biggest building can be invisible) and can garnison all type of unit? How that can be used to improve the game feelings?
Also this game is not aoe2, pls add snare to chimiu, unit with 7.5 speed and canât be snare shouldânt exist for obvious reason
2 Likes
If the remove the garrison of the cannon. The fort becomes useless. As you have nothing to reach Mort if someone plays well So it doesnât matter if the fort has 100k hp, Youâll bleed slowly
Imperial mortar has 500 seige? 5 of those would take 22 volleys to down a 33k fort⊠you donât think 22 volleys for 5 imperial mortars is too much?The game you posted you rekt hazza 5 unction mortars with chuma runners and the heavy splash dmg units. The cannons were long gone. Mortars SHOULD force you out of the fort to counter mortar play.
It happened because hazza wasnât playing properly. If he had played well he could have done it easily
Plus there is an opinion that Spain is weak ( the 2,7k views post). So that match vs Hazza proves kinda nothing. Sweden just rolls over everything, including Inca, but you know, everyoneâs seems fine with that lol
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There are consensus arround the fact than swe is too strong. And spain is not weak, stop with that statement.
This post sums up the state of Inca perfectly and shows why OP exaggerates.
These posts show why Ensemble Studioâs original âbalance team/dev teamâ is so underrated. They balanced all their games so well up to a point, even if eventually some unique things get discovered.
I simply canât find myself taking even the big description above seriously. Incas/Aztecs complaining about cannons? Well thatâs pretty normal, but, you do have counters to the cannons and other strengths.
There are expensive heavy infantry units that tank whole cannon shots, with area-of-effect, and faster units that defeat archer/cannon, and balances out their powerful infantry force, but arenât always designed for pure blob-vs-blob gameplay in which cannons might win-Even as much as noobs want an uber-infantry blob that gets hit by cannons and survives, all native civs thrive with more management.
Incas can always have stronger lategame than Aztecs due to no-population dancing llamas in the firepit, and similar variety of units. This should mean most noobs would like Incas but most masterful players who know they wonât be making cavalry might even prefer Aztec for some reason (as the very-late age5, 40minute+ strategies arenât always the way to choose a civ)
Itâs hard to make the call without a true expert telling the balance rather than people whining about this or that.
In my opinion the only thing needing a nerf in the new civs is:
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Nerf Swedenâs 1-unit spam Caroleans, clearly supports how beta-testers, new-age gamers, and new players play by spamming only muskets that seem to be too good, rather than variety like every other euro-civ.
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Nerf Incaâs Age2 siege attack, and ability to take out the TC with the cheese rush early needs to be evaluated by a real team. Increase the siege attack again Age3 or later when their âvery strongâ lategame (as described by many sources) can be displayed, they can then just knock out buildings. Aztec/Sioux/Iro donât get this capability and their early rush ability is actually right-on-time or late in most cases if itâs not all in. .
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Unsure for Town Dances. Some of these native civs can get it with a card. Incaâs llama pit is too much different from deciding to put villagers to economy or firepit, which was originally balanced around this. A fort only covers a small area, even directly in someoneâs base, why only focus on the building with buffed HP even if itâs absurdly high? If they do this, then theyâre not doing something else (XP, production, damage, etc.).
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Inca - consider the possibility their spears need to be tweaked for cavalry (or other unit types), but they already get a very strong siege/long spear unit that is cheaper than cav. I think, Incans have many opportunities for all type of players, the biggest strength being their spammed units, earliness, and food/wood costs, the suggestions can be looked at.
Inca/Sweden otherwise seems fine, and maybe other real issues can be identified not by randoms who might play 50 minute games, not react properly, do general misplaying & not considering skill mismatches or luck.
You forgot to mention stronghold crazy ability to increase damage for every military unit inside. It just ridiculous, with 50 units stronghold has 800!!! area damage with 35 range (possibly more, but I reached this value). Itâs abnormal. There are civs that donât have long-range artillery, Inca for example 
two strongholds placed near to each other (to cover close range) just unbeatable for them. Somebody may say that you are losing 50 pop for this, but for Inca it isnât the problem, they have Kallanka and tons of native allies.
To make town dance work as you described they should make switching to the town dance very long (like 30-60 sec) or increase building HP over time (like 5% per second until it reaches a maximum). Because now you can use something else, and switch to the town dance only if the enemy at the gate. But even if town dance will be nerfed, they should also remove one of the building HP upgrades (improved buildings to be precise) 45% is already enough.
Inca is broken. Same goes for Swedes. Both new civilizations should be removed from ladders until gets fixed. Or just keep themâŠAnd watch how slowly player base going to walk away.
I just want to add the following. After some games been giving a thought about it.
The very same civ [ INCA ] Has no tool to take down a 35 range FORT with 55k HP. like none of the native civs and 2 of the asian civs cant kill the FORT They got no siege unit Past 35 range. Only Japan and all 8 euro civs have any chance at killing such monster.
So if keeping this FORT is within the Developers plan. Please give a siege units with more than 35 range to:
Aztec
Sioux
Iro
India
China
And to INCA themselves. like the Huaraca needs a card to get to 31 siege range and still not enough
The stronghold is an interesting defensive building, Never seen in AOE3 before. It could see a play as turtle was never a thing.
If that Stronghold gets nerf INCA would require serious buffs due to the following
- 10 priest dancing = 20 pop: Maybe reducing it to 1pop or even no pop? Priestess barely see usage in the fight and theyâre alot like aztec priest on the plaza
- Wood is a severe issue. Maybe making their houses that produce food give an option to produce wood or switch between the two?
- Anti canon options in a game where canon is #1 is almost nothing. [ I would suggest that Huaraca gets 36+ Siege range ] and [ 34 normal range to combat other canons ]
In an equal battle with same upgrades and no FORT. INCA is so bad it becomes a sad story
However all these problems arise in the late game which is where most people complain theyâre weak.
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I agree with khorix. The civ has cool specialties but it needs to be reworked.
Itâs been 3 weeks and the dust has settled. Garrisoning cannons is obviously not okay. 2 warhuts upon age-up is obviously too strong. 35 range on a fort is obviously too much.
No-snare chimus are no-risk + all-reward when raiding and they probably need a nerf (vill penalty imo).
And here's a mathematical argument that kancha house trickle is too strong
Comparing inca to brits is not fair to brits, when Incaâs boom income is hardly raid-able (even used as walls), never idles, and never expends natural resource. A more apt comparison would be to dutch. dutch uses gold trickle to pay for gold-heavy units. inca food for food heavy units. My argument assumes that the dutch are a well-balanced civilization.
NOTE: although food and gold are collected by vills at different rates, all resources are EQUAL when it comes to training units and comparing shipment values. Therefore, trickle-income can also be compared equally across resources when considering unit output (this is why factories, trade routes, and crates donât give premium food).
Iâm going to compare trickle outputs to the base-villager-second (vs) cost of maximizing the trickle economy.
Dutch banks cost 700 res, and theyâre worth 2.75 g/s. A bank in villager seconds is (350 * (1/.5)) + (350 * 1/.84)) = 1116.5 vs.
Assuming the dutch player ships a bank, 4 banks + 1 shipped bank (5 is the limit) costs 4466 vs + 1 shipment, and yields 13.75 g/s.
13 kanchas produce 13f/s for 3510vs. 13 upgraded kanchas costs 3510 vs + 1 shipment.
Thus, when canceling out the shipment both civs must send to maximize their trickle economy, Dutch pays 325vs / trickle, Inca pays 270vs / trickle. 325/270 = 1.2.
In conclusion, the dutch player pays 20% more resource per resource-output than Inca to attain their trickle economy, AND they still have to build houses to maintain population, AND theyâre limited to 50 villagers.
Edit: patch resolved cannon garrison issue
4 Likes
You agree that current inca mirror is technically a stalemate, as noobody has the tools to break each other?
A little off the track: As an India main! I would love if the Puny Agra Fort attack is increased !
you wanted your nerf, you got your nerf.
now dont cry for a buff, because there were more ways to play with forts or field cannons like spear rush / natives. I personally dont l ike the changes cause kancha booming into fortress hiding is basicly the only way to play them now.
As i said before most of my games ended in age 2.
But with no more chaski drop off point, less siege dmg AND weaker units they are just not attractive for age 2 rushing anymore. if you level out the siege dmg of their pike against their costs they are even worse then some of the other pikes.
So you know what inca players are doing, booming there â â â off.
before you at least had to scout if his chaskis are trying to scount a good attack point.
This patch REDUCED the opporturnities of play and FORCES you to use that fortress.
Before i rarely build them at all,i fought most of my games in commerce age.
AND they nerfed another strategy, playing them with natives.
-> using chasqi as drop off point for native treaty card + age 1 native embassy.
is way worse if you cant drop them behind enemy base - no surprise anymore.
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No, I think thatâs a great thing if you played with the same civ and the balance really worked. You experienced balance, congrats. 
I did feel a difference but wasnât aware of changes, I think itâs better now, they arenât weak civs but you canât simply do 1 thing.
I also saw people who did that, but they did things like spam all muskets/skirmishers and lost lot to cannons, and then on my team they won but they had like a 140-300 kd and needed help to win. They made no headway and were downright losing just because of a few cannons, even if in that case I helped them mop up.
Thereâs just so many rants I can address and all mostly addressed already⊠like, sure it might not be possible all the time, but why not try to stop a fort? You canât always finish destroying it but unbuilt buildings take more damage, so you can deal massive damage if you just find a fort going up and attack it plainly. Or go around it. If they waste on something like town dance for late-game, they likely canât sustain as well in other areas against your civ. Maybe Inca/Aztec has the best sustainability for losing units, economy late-game fights, but I feel thereâs just too much to be said about town dance isnât OP either. It speaks a lot about the players and what most of them do if they just think a full firepit/town dance is too strong.
Iâve seen these players in action at least once and theyâve do things like spaz out and focus on the fort building at the wrong times, then wonder why theyâre trying to kill a huge HP fort thatâs being buffed in HP, and barely putting a dent in it, then the enemy (sometimes in teams) comes and beats their usually fairly weak army mainly comprised of all infantry. In fact everything about this reads like a noob strategy, make sure the person just attacks your super-building, and then theyâll be super distracted by it. These player need to read up on some RTS basics that would help them in any game, like not aiming to throwing away units and replacing hundreds of them. Ever heard of cannons, mortars, cavalry, and other units? You can even sit out of range of fort s and force Inca to attack as âmostâ of these complainers use Euro civs that have access to these cannons. Thereâs definitely just general skill difference. They play every RTS game like a full buildup in AoE2 or do weird things.
I think Sweden/Incas should be better now, even if it was what lot of players liked to do, it really wasnât balanced for the other civs (it was just like a pay-to-win DLC with a simple all-around better thing or that type of balance). Better now I think.
Btw this is not my video, but here is one with the changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOhn3t540M
What happens is that AOE3 had the same meta for 15 years. You now introduce something new and meta changes and all complain that something is op. There are players who have put up with this playstyle and it is simply booming and playing and eco game rather than rush and lose all your army under a FORT. [ I personally would love to see all FORTS to be this strong as it would encourage a turtle play instead of walling everything] . But I also understand old players as they were never used to playing turtle or donât like it. Me personally I think that no brainer should be nerfed. But new ways of playing should be welcomed
I really want to point this one because Game needs to be balanced.
The following civs. have no way of killing INCA stronghold after it gets 35 range and all the cards rolling.
Aztec: no unit that can touch the stronghold
Sioux: no unit that can touch the stronghold
Iro: Has field cannons that also die to the Stronghold
India: Siege ele with only 28 range and 30 at imperial age. Yet no way of killing the stronghold
China: 34 hand mortar range. closest one. However castle destroys them.
Inca: Huaracas canât touch the Stronghold not even at its lowest stats
All other civs not mention have Mortars.
So it goes the following way. Either all the mentioned civs get a unit with 36+ Siege range [ This is not the same as combat range ] ( you made it possible with huaracas where they get 22 combat and 31 siege range )
Or we nerf the stronghold so bad that Inca loses its identity. And then some other serious buff to deal with everything mid to late game will be required.
Have to keep in mind that current EURO Forts have 26 range and then 32 range after upgrades and even then these are really bad.
I personally think that Forts/Stronghold could see play with the proper buffs and the proper counters to them for all civs not only a few
2 Likes
Its increased to 30 and 32 in imperial for Seige ele as well as for flaming arrows, along with that flail elephant is a decent option to seige, as they are now properly semi-buffed