The inca eagle in imp is still worse in most situations than both the aztec and mayan eagles. 10% speed for kamayuks is not that much (it would put them between celt champs and pikes).
Changing their team bonus to free caravan might do the job.
Alright, so in order for the new team bonus idea to be balanced, i would say, it should be stronger than the incan team bonus is right now and weaker than the spanish and chinese team boni (strongest early and late game TB respectively)
Out of your suggestions the following would be weaker than the incan Team bonus is right now. (so too weak)
- +2 LOS on stone gates / +1 LOS on stone walls
- 50% faster research mill upgrades
- 33% faster working mills, lumber camps, mining camps
- 66% faster construction of mills, lumber camps, mining camps
- Trade units get +1 pierce armour, +1 melee armour, or more HP
- Villagers +1 LOS
The following would be stronger than the chinese or spanish team bonus are right now. (so too strong)
- Houses +5 (like the slav bonus)
- Castles +20% hitpoints
- Castles built 50% faster
- Towers built 50% faster
- Eagles produced 50% faster
So that leaves us with the following suggestions of you, that ill tell you my opinion on:
- Team sheep visible on the map at the start of the game (like the Burmese team bonus)
(technically fine but could make laming more viable, idk what people would think about that)
- Automatic 2 farm reseeds in queue upon building first mill
(very strong, possibly stronger than the chinese bonus, but its the same order of magnitude, so if its stronger, it’s not by much.)
- 80% /100% discount on Fortified Wall Tech
(fine for incas, but obviously completely useless for civs that dont get fortified walls)
- Reduction in UU tech research cost
(probably my favourite out of the bunch. How balanced it is ofc depends on how much cheaper you make it.)
- Farmers regenerate HP while farming
(pretty useless in most games, but in the 20% or so of games where it would save you a vil that you would otherwise lose in feudal age it’s invaluable, so if you average over all games it’s fine as a TB, just weird how situational it is, but theres also the condotierro and the genitour TB which are even more situational, so it checks out id say.)
- Farms regenerate food when not in use
(this has a strong potential for being very OP, but it depends how fast farms regenerate food. if its slow enough it could be balanced and then it would be pretty interesting)
- Houses built 50% faster
(this saves very little time. even less than the faster farms save you right now, but its still potentially a stronger bonus, because it helps you with quickwalling. If you build the foundation for 1 second and then walk away with your vil it will have 50% more hp than normally and that can be useful for buying you some time before enemy units break through. Could be controversial though due to how unpopular walling is with many people.)
- Eagles +2 LOS (in contrast with Mongols bonus)
- Eagles +2 attack vs buildings
- Eagles +1 attack vs archers
(Those 3 are all fine for incas, but ofc any civ that doesnt have eagles wont get any use out of this.)
- Castles +1 LOS
(Seems very weak at first, but since castles already have a lot of vision, adding 1 extra LOS would add a lot of tiles to your vision, so i think it would be fine, would prefer if it was +2 tho.)
- Coinage available for free
(Very useful in a team game where slinging is allowed, completely useless in every other setting though.)
All that being said, im part of the 5% that thought, the bonus isnt terrible. Bad sure, but it does help. saving 7.5 seconds on every farm increases your dark age farming rate by about 1%, which is about a tenth of the aztec eco bonus, which is considered pretty strong, so i thought it still sorta checked out as a team bonus. My favourite way of balancing it would be by making it reduce the Farm build time from 15s to 3s instead of to 7.5s (so 400% faster farm building instead of 100% faster) That should save you enough time to cause a more notable difference in your food eco.
I really appreciate your comment and I agree with a lot of what you say. I also agree that super charging the existing bonus would be a nice improvement.
I do how ever disagree with your opinion on the +2 LOS on stone gates / +1 LOS on stone walls
It’s a really good bonus for Arena and Blackforest where you tend to see the use of stone walls often. In Arena, having a bit more LOS would allow you to see attacks and castledrops sooner, and cuts down on initial scouting to find your in-house sheep. In open maps, it would give feudal walling a buff as you would be able to see circling troops. It’s very slight, but just enough to give an edge to the whole team.
Also, the I think Team sheep visible on the map at the start of the game would only be viable if you could see your own team’s sheep. Knowing where enemy sheep are is definitely OP.
Stone walls have such a low line of sight And besides stone walls being hardly ever used outside of those maps you metioned, +1 would just change so little it should still be at least like +3 or +4 LOS to add any useful vision.
I said it would help with laming, not because i thuoght you meant it lets you see enemy sheep, but because normally when people go for a lame they dont first get all their sheep and leave themselves exposed to be counterlamed this way. That bonus would allow you to get all of your sheep immediately and go for a lame right after and your opponent couldnt really punish you for it as easily.
Would starting with a horse and pikeman instead of a scout be interesting team bonus?
Just a dumb but interesting idea i had
That could end up being a nerf
would be cool civ bonus, but its not straight better than having a scout, so it would be bad for a team bonus, because it might aswell be a disadvantage to your team mates over having no team bonus at all, depending on what their strategy was
Good point. I was thinking of adding him to a mma rush or even a drush or a little defense for your archers. I guess it would hurt people who go scout rush.
This one might be controversial, but it would be really fun.
Team Bonus: Eagle Warriors available in Barracks.
Any allied civ can make Eagle Warriors. Alot of them would be strong, but none would be as strong as Mayans.
As a trade-off. Move the faster building farms to a normal civ bonus.
30% faster is a bit too good
I would rather make it +2 or +3 vs archers
Its still a really weird idea
It’s no weirder than Condotierro’s being available as a Team Bonus.
Except that Inca’s get eagle warriors already. So in 1v1 it’s literally a useless bonus. But that’s not unusual either, with civs like Spanish and whatnot.
Tbh Its not that weird but this bonus:
a. Makes them a really bad ally to other Meso civs
b. Opens the door to a thousant of more similar bonuses
a. That’s why I included the 30%, which isn’t as strong as you think it is. It’s no different than meso civs being teamed with civs that improve the Stable or Cavalry in some way.
b. Good. It’s a fun bonus.
a. i rather just make it similar to the Persian bonus with knights (probably more balanced)
b. Yeah its a fun bonus
Awesome thread. I was compiling suggestions from here, reddit, other forums and facebook about the replacement for the incas’ blacksmith and team bonus.
Here are some that weren’t included:
Farmers +1 carry capacity.
Reason: nice early game and balances itself as more eco techs are researched later.
A small boost in feudal, similar to +45 food from the chinese team bonus.
Farms built instantly. Mill techs are researched instantly too.
Reason: Doesn’t change the overall benefits but saves time.
A stronger version of the current team bonus that fixes the time mess ups.
Castles generate 1 gold per 6 seconds.
Reason: Castles are the 2nd most expensive building and the 1st to get destroyed. In most matches, 3~4 (arena 4~6) are built.
A weaker version of relics. Gives less gold than the aztec TB and somewhat fixes the inca gold problem.
Infantry moves 5% faster.
Reason: the return of couriers, but a far weaker version.
A small boost to infantry.
Farms generate gold.
Reason: Fixes their gold problem. 40 farms generate gold like 1 relic.
PS: This was suggested BEFORE the burgundian’s gold generating farms thingy was implemented. But would be cool to revisit. Perhaps to an even lower rate.
Funny to see this one pinned but, sure, why not!
Useless. Should be on any type of wall if it was to be considered.
Not a fan. I mean, ideally you should get all your sheep either way. The Burmese bonus on the other hand shows what could be taken from both players. But extending this to Incas would be bad bc this essentially would be a laming bonus, then.
Could be okay but tbh the recent development with these one-time bonuses (see Burgundians and Siclians) shouldn’t be continued imo.
Useless. Rarely seen and it’s already super cheap.
Not sure what I think about that. Seems pretty hard to balance since some UTs are increadingly expensive while others rather cheap.
Effectively probably worse than the current tb but at the same less annoying. Still, why bother to change tb then?
I mean I get the current one is bad because you might finish horse collar too late. But how about giving Incas a tb that actually make things better? I remember that thread and the calculations done there: This is actually worse in terms of res advantage compared to current tb.
Incas rarely get picked in teamgames. Escpecially now that the villager tower thing is gone. Eagles simply aren’t a good unit in teamgames and Incas counter units don’t really shine here either. Imo their tb should also apply to 1v1. Otherwise it would just be a change on paper.
Not exactly a great (even for a tb) but if people can’t come up with better solutions so be it11
Focuses Incas a bit too much on the house theme imo but apart from that sounds decent.
You mean like Incas?11 This is the exact bonus Incas already have. Also as essentially half of the Huns main eco bonus that’s way too strong as a tb.
LOS on vils already a Korean bonus.
Pretty uninspiring and just extending Incas cheaper stone buildungs bonus. One bonus on defensive buildings should be enough. Also overlaps with other civs’ bonuses.
If eagles had -1 LOS in general I’d like that. But this would you could see half the map within very short time. But maybe giving them +1 LOS on all infantry would do the trick.
Way too strong. Also faster producing eagles is kind of aztecs theme.
Could be worth considering.
Again, Incas not a tg civ.
Imo what could be done with Incas atm is transforming the current blacksmith bonus to their tb. As a civ bonus it’s pretty underwhelming but as tb should be okay, especially since there isn’t many other reason to pick them in tg. Then they could get an actually valuable new civ bonus.
How about villagers +5hp or +1 melee armor
Farm upgrades add food instantly to farms even after being build.