Increase berserk Pierce armor by 1 or 2

Increasing viking berserk pierce armor will increase the viability lf these units while making them more ‘berserk’-like, similar to a certain Boromir.


i have to disagree, Vikings do not need any buffs at this time.


I’d say this applies to Jaguar Warriors, Samurais, Condottieros, Teutonic Knights and Shotel Warriors
+1 Pierce Armor for these unseen units, that are trumped by Supplies FU Champions is much more necessary


I’d love to see Teuton Condottiero with their 6 melee armor have increased pierce armor, sounds lovely


Condottieros should be balanced for the Italians first. What happens in specific instances and special cases in Team Games is not the basis for balancing.

If Teuton Condos pain you so much, let us give only Italian Condos +1/+1 armor through Pavise

And then there is Teuton +2 Melee armor Super cheap Supplies FU Champions.
People forget that, Condos cost as much as 160HP 7PA 1.54Speed Keshiks (50F 35G each Keshik generates>5G), while Champions cost only 45F 20G
That +75% Gold difference makes seeing Teuton Condos you mention about also unlikely after Mid-Imperial


I like to use them personally because of their speed, works well to intercept siege without a cavalry weakness to the ol’ pikeman

Well, that and the anti gunpowder usability

Note, I wasn’t being sarcastic, I genuinely love the unit for the teutons and would like to see the buff- the healing fortress can keep them alive for the most part, but every bit of defense helps

I hardly ever use the champion line tbh


Berserks are already the most viable infantry UU and one of the best UUs in general. Buffing their pierce armor combined with their regen and movement speed would make them OP


@JoJo9942 Saying that, we cannot ignore the fact that there are other Infantry UU’s that do need something like a +1 PA to be viable now
Namely : Jaguar Warriors, Samurais, Condottieros, Teutonic Knights and Shotel Warriors


yeah lets buff the UU of strong civs like Teutons and Aztecs. totally can’t see that going wrong. especially a unit like the TK which already has 6 pierce armor fully upgraded as is.


Buffing an unused unit to be viable will never make a civ OP, as it only gives that civ another not-so-viable/non-meta strategy


yeah because win-rates don’t go up when civs get buffs. literally the history of RTS proves you wrong.

if a unit that wasn’t used before is buffed to the point it can be used in the core of the civs army, that civ will be stronger for it.

some civs probably wouldn’t be OP, but Aztecs? Teutons?


Someone: Low using rate UU need buff.
MatCauthon3: No, they are already balance.(JonOli12 like it)


can you honestly tell me vikings, teutons and aztecs need a buff right now?

Be Objective here.
here are the civs sitting above 49% with relatively unused UU
Malay, Japanese, Aztecs, Malians, Khmer, Teutons, Vikings, Huns, and Franks
Celts and Incas are also above, who very situationally use their UU
can you honestly tell me those civs need to be stronger?

Nope,but the game need more fun, that’s pretty boring to see most of civ will go knight or crossbow all the way,maybe some new player just wanna play more UU for different civ in different strategies. But we may wrong,Aoe 2 anyway is still 20years old game, that’s how their game system setup.


more fun is an entirely subjective opinion. viper considers it fun to try to fight 4 Extreme AI at one time.
I would consider that a nightmare.

and do you realize how much work it would take to completely rebalance this game around every civ using their UU as the core of their army?
imagine trying to balance Malay around Karambits being the core of their army at the same time you’re balancing Persians around using Elite War Elephants.

okay, and that’s fine. theres plenty of civs that DO use their UU, and most UU are VIABLE, they just aren’t OPTIMAL.

and thats what i’ve been saying, this game has literally never designed itself in the way parthnan wants it designed. hes attributing what he wants to the game, without a care for what has always been.
if he wants to make a mod for that, he should go ahead. but frankly, to do what he wants, would require a complete overhaul of balance and design, and would probably throw the game, and especially the pro scene into chaos for who knows how long. games literally 20 years old and we still have civs to this day who aren’t balanced.

While infantry in general could do with some kind of tweak to make them more viable in general, imo things like the berserk should be at yhe bottom of the list in priority

Yes vikings should be bosses, but the berserk already has a big stack of bonuses, and sees quite a lot of use (compared to other UU) coupled to one of the best eco power curves in the game, is already listed as S tier in power levels is currently only really countered by archers and siege (due to their anti cav bonus mixed with super pikes)

I agree those other underused UU need some work though… Jags, etc.

Maybe with enough buffing to the bottom tier factions (porto etc) we can balance wise justify buffs to the jag (who is also coupled to an S tier faction) but until other factions are buffed, doing anything to the jag will make aztec even more powerful compared to the low level guys, even though the jag hardly sees usage…

Condo, Karambit and possibly shotel could do with some kind of work though, since they are only B and A tier at best iirc


Out of all melee unique units (except Huscarls) you chose the one that is the strongest and the most versatile - Berserks.

I don’t think that you realise how huge +1 PA is.
These units you guys are mentioning have 1 base PA. It’s one more than camels. If you give them 1 more they have the same armour as cavaliers (2 base PA) which is definitely too much for a unit that has their unique bonuses / abilities a lot of hp for the cost and no trash counters.

I could see the argument for decreasing the cost very slightly but not for changing their stats (such armor).


I could stand behind these changes:

Jaguars -10R
Samurai -10R
Woad Raiders -5R
Shotels -10R
Karambit Warrior -5R

by -10 I mean a discount of up to -10 so -5 is fine.

R - resources paid for production (in this case cost of Food or Gold to produce a unit)


Yeah, let’s give a infantry unit that beat champions and have bonus against cavalry some extra PA, so they become highly resistant to archers.

Good luck using monk micro against them


Woads are fine. Celts always use them

1 Like