Going by that logic you have to nerf every unit that’s strong in some situations. Frankish Paladin and stable bonus, Elite Mangudai, Elite Plumed Archer, Mayan Elite Eagles, Elite Huskarls. All these units are OP in a lot of situations, doesn’t mean you have to nerf them.
Indians are a civ that counter cavalry civs well but lots of infantry and archer civs do good vs Indians. So there’s no need to nerf an occasionally strong unit in a balanced civ.
If you still feel they need a nerf, perhaps reducing the attack bonus vs buildings by 1 should be sufficient. If you remove the +1 armor, they will definitely have the lowest pick rate because they’ll be a civ with no powerful special unit, no Arbalest, no Knight line nor Eagle line.
Remove the pierce armor to camels and grant non elite battle Elefants instead… Imp camels tech could be slightly cheaper to compensate.
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To what purpose? Only time to make elephants in castle age is shortly after you reach it to accompany your archers vs. magonels or as a meatshield vs knights. And you really only make very few of them, also usually only with Malay or Khmer. Your suggestions heavily nerfs Indian’s gameplay just to add a pretty much useless option.
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It is added for historical reason and by popular demand. If it is so useless then I don’t see why not to add Elefants.
The camel nerf is in line with the title of this thread,which I agree with and the Elefant and imp camel cost change would soften this intended nerf
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I think they are fine as it is if we aren’t gonna entirely redesign them.
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But it sounds like the elephant addition makes up for the pierce armor reduction which clearly isn’t the case. Also cheaper imp camel upgrade doesn’t make up for that. Indians are super solid in imp either way, their problem is their castle age unit availibity. A good balance is way more important than historical accury btw. You wouldn’t nerf a civ because some random thread title suggests it. There is really no plausible argument for removing the extra pierce armor on their camels made here. Many peope have even suggested buffing them and now some players found out that Indians are a good pocket civ for tg after watching a tournament where they performed well and immeditaly started suggesting nerfs. And yet people are wondering why suggestions from this forum oftentimes aren’t taken seriously.
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And I’m asking how is that a problem?
Well I presume it’s same as kind of problem as when people complain about being able to pick a civ in 1v1 arabia etc.
One is that you don’t get a whole lot of variety, it’s just cavalry civ in the pocket (probably franks persians etc) and archer civ on flanks as per the meta. People were complaining about always seeing persians for instance in 1v1 arabia.
Then presumably pertaining to the op, you see indians making only camels in team games, because a) you’re picking them and picking them to be pocket, and b) it’s a team game and the meta is to go gold units, and cavalry when pocket hence loads of camels.
JonOli12
HC counter eagles as long as there’s no eco to be raided.
Otherwise you will never touch eagles. As well you need numbers and stacked HC.
In low numbers it’s actually the other way around.
@ Player965976697
You sound like someone who actually plays the game, well done.
Shatagini is not that good in low numbers because of low accuracy of HC.
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I must admit: one game I was flanked by surprise, had no military in my base and 20 camels killed all 3 TC and all my production buildings before I could add barracks and make a dozen spears. By the time I had a few spears, his ally’s crossbowmen were there. GG in less than 3 minutes raid.
Indian camels are not too strong. They are OK.
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Overall, I see two problems with imperial camels and the Indian civ itself.
- Their team bonus giving camel attack bonus vs building doesn’t work with most other civs. At the latest patch, out of 35 civs, only 10 other civs have camel in their tech tree. Take out byzantine, Ethiopian, and mongols which lacks blood line or final armor upgrade or both, the bonus doesn’t work for them anymore as their camels won’t last as long under defensive arrows. So, this bonus can realistically benefits only 7 out of 35 civs (only 20%). Team bonus should be something that can benefit majority of the civs.
- Many other players are complaining Elephants archers are very situational and are not as useful in reality and that indian should have battle elephants for historical accuracy.
For these reasons, I would like to propose the following change.
- Give battle elephants to indian, remove camel +1P armor bonus and make fishing bonus as team bonus. This way, instead of camels raiding the towns, Indian get elephants which are designed to resist archer fire and take down buildings. They can still have imperial camels but they are now reduced to just cavalry counter and no longer OP as heavy cavalry, raiders + building attack. On top of that, they get a team bonus that works for all civ on maps that has shore fish.
- To differentiate from other Rise of Raja civs, make elephant units attack 33% faster for Indian. In this way, elephants archers will get a buff simultaneously.
- To balance their elephant advantage, remove Hussars from tech tree. They already have 3 eco bonus, 1. fishing bonus, 2. villagers discount, 3. gold production +10% and 2 other trash units in herbaldiers and skirmishers. This way, not only they will be losing a late game trash unit, their faster attacking elephants will become more susceptible to monks overall. Not only that, they will no longer be able to use their potent hussar + cavalry archer combo and thus will encourage more towards elephant + elephant archer + handcannoner combo instead.
If further balance is needed, we can always change the price of unique techs and price of elephant archer.
@nzkbison imo that sounds like too much of a redesign with too much potential for unforeseen issues…
the shore fishing stacking with aztec or viking eco… good luck!
33% faster attack on a unit that is already so difficult to balance… good luck!
unless there is some hidden genius level thought behind this(is your name hera or viper?), or with testing that you havent mentioned? then this sounds like some super random stuff that has too much space for imbalance…
Well they are only good for TG s and they’re ■■■■ good. To nerf maybe the pierce armor can come with the imp camel upgrade and to compensate the upcoming weakness in castle age knight can be added without cavalier upgrade like saracenss
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Or non elite battle elefsnts