It does not matter what the new DLC is

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
41

Actually they are not. They are closer to the AoE1 Shang in tech level.

9 Likes
42

True, but I mean that the Rome at War mod goes from 500 BC to 500 AD, that’s why I put the 3K in Chronicles
 besides the fact that the medieval units in 3K look very strange, also medieval China started at the beginning of the Tang dynasty in the 7th century
It’s like 400 years apart from the 3K


3 Likes
43

Agreed, especially about adding campaigns for jurchens, khitans and chinese civs. Also the same for vikings (for e.g. Cnut the Great), turks (e.g. Selim II), koreans and mayans; possibly even for Western Roman Empire (e.g. Majorian).

2 Likes
44

Let me tell my humble opinion.
I see no such a big problem with 3K DLC, campaigns are quite nice and don’t f**k up classic AoE II gameplay principles (which I cannot say about first set of HD version new campaigns of 2013 or some missions of Victors and Vanqiushed DLC).
The only problem of 3K is its place in the previous content - IMHO it should be in the different chapter, like Greek-Persian wars of the 1st half of the 5th cent. B.C. has in the Chronicles chapter. Also it should be turned to optional ability to choose these factions for skirmish.

1 Like
45

Including the Goths, Huns, and Romans in a game like Age of Empires II, which focuses on the Middle Ages, makes sense for several reasons:

  1. Historical Relevance to the Middle Ages – The Goths, Huns, and Eastern Romans were active and influential during the late antiquity to early medieval period, directly shaping the medieval political and cultural landscape.
  2. Geopolitical Impact – These civilizations interacted with, invaded, or influenced medieval Europe, contributing to the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the formation of medieval kingdoms, and the shifting balance of power in the Middle Ages.
  3. Continuity into the Medieval Era – While the Huns disappeared relatively early, their presence altered medieval history, and the Goths and Romans (as the early Byzantines) persisted well into the medieval period, making them relevant for a game set in that timeframe.

By contrast, including ancient Chinese kingdoms such as Wu, Shu, and Wei from the Three Kingdoms period does not make historical sense for an AoE2 setting:

  1. Wrong Time Period – The Wu, Shu, and Wei kingdoms existed during the 3rd century AD, long before the Middle Ages. They were part of China’s ancient history, not its medieval history.
  2. No Direct Medieval Interaction – These states had no contact or influence on the medieval world outside China, and certainly none on the regions AoE2 primarily covers (Europe, the Middle East, and parts of Asia).
  3. Civilization Redundancy – Age of Empires II already includes the Chinese civilization, representing medieval China as a whole. Adding Wu, Shu, and Wei would result in four “Chinese” options—three of which are just ancient kingdoms from the same cultural background—leading to unnecessary overlap instead of diversity among civilizations.
  4. Gameplay Variety – The game aims to include civilizations from different regions and timeframes within the medieval era to create diverse playstyles. Adding multiple ancient Chinese kingdoms would limit variety compared to including medieval-relevant factions from other regions.
7 Likes
46

Yes, exactly, although Selim II seems a bit late to me, I prefer Mehmet II before and after post-The Siege


Yes, that’s why I consider 3K a Chronicles DLC and nothing will change my mind, even if they later add campaigns for the Jurchens and Khitans


Yes, and the most important thing is that they appear and fit well into the game’s campaigns since AoK
 the Huns there make a bit of noise to me because they predate “the fall of Rome”, but since they’ve been around since The Conquerors, well I guess we have to live with it
 but with 3K, no longer, it’s impossible to accept them


1 Like
47

What about “Xe An (383)” scenario then?

1 Like
48

Sorry, I meant Selim I Yavuz, not Selim II. My mistake.

49

You know when the Middle Ages started?

50

There is more than 100 year gap between 383 and 260. Surprise surprise

4 Likes
51

As far as I know, Chinese historical tradition starts count medieval period since abdication of emperor Xian, the last of Han dynasty, in 220 AD. And ends in 1644, when Qing army captures Beijing.
Such as in India historical tradition starts count medieval period since 550, wheh hephtalites captured Pataliputra, the capital of Gupta Empire. And ends in 1526 after the First Panipat battle.
Let professionals tell me if I am wrong in the differences of local historical traditions.

2 Likes
52

As far as World’s Edge told you

Do you believe in this nonsense before World’s Edge did its mental gymnastics to squeeze 3K into the game?

There is no “medieval period of China” at all in Chinese historical tradition. Medieval is a western concept that explains their interim between what they believed are “ancient” and “modern”, and it was marked by the fall of Rome which didn’t happen in China

Any mention of “medieval China” is either “China in the (western) Middle Ages” or a non-scholarly loose analogy. There were collapses of central authority but that happened in cycles, and the culture and the sense of mandate of heaven was never lost. There is not a “middle age” or rather you can define a bunch of “middle ages”. All separatist factions (like 3K, Northern and Southern Dynasties, Sixteen Kingdoms) declare themselves as the rightful successor. Unlike the Western Roman Empire which was gone once and for all.

4 Likes
53

I see you are trying to tell me that division into ancient, medieval and modern history is a stamp, forced by the western colonialists.
No problem, in that case the entire discussion becomes pointless, IMHO.

54

Or it is probably something much more mind-blowing: most parts of the world do NOT follow the same historiography as western Europe.

Very surprising. No?

And find one time where I said “colonialist” otherwise apologize.

4 Likes
55

Would you like to give some links for the correct historical scientific sources, please?

56

After you point out which part of my reply said COLONIALIST

57

I am not claiming word “colonialist” is initially yours. Not at all.
But you insist on western science and culture as “forced” to other parts of the world. And I don’t know other way these were spread by force to other countries and continents. Maybe you know such western method?

58

A scenario taking place in the late 4th century is different from having 3 entire campaigns taking place in the late 2nd century despite this being a medieval game. Plus Xie An has nothing to do with 3K and none of the 3K civs are present in the scenario, almost as if those “civilizations” stopped existing long before that

8 Likes
59

It is a simple state of fact. Like how Winston Churchill is western. Like how French fries are western. Like how Spain is western.

What would you call someone’s claim that “We found Japan to be surprisingly Spanish?” or “stirred fried potatoes is surprisingly French fries?” Forced. Shoehorned. Twisted. Pick your word.

Middle ages is a western concept. Period. Simple as it is. If you want to call anything not western “medieval”, you need to do significant mental gymnastics like WE did, and it was forced. Forced into a narrative or a marketing material, because they shouldn’t be there. Forced as in putting the Koreans into “The Conquerors” because it may sell not because they fit the theme.

Would you look for the European “Spring and Autumn Period” or the European “Han Dynasty” in serious history? No. Because they simply don’t exist.
And would you call someone looking for these things “Chinese nationalist”? No. I’d call them illiterate. But still salvageable if they had their own ideas instead of listening to some shit modern corporate.

And it does not need a colonialist to “stamp” middle ages on East Asia. They didn’t do it at all, or did it out if misunderstanding. They were literates and pragmatists and were not some stupid corpo trying to sell a cashgrab.
World’s Edge did. And World’s Edge is not a colonialist. They just want to twist the narrative to sell their cashgrab.

4 Likes
60

Thank you. Btw, very close to my opinion.