Dunno. We must take in consideration also that palisade walls have been nerfed too as a general change, so early aggressions are easier now. This kinda conflicts with the concept of a “no rushing” civ.
We just have to see if italian’s university discount can patch up the damage they are most likely to take in early game. Not too positive about that but, as always, tests must be done.
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15% discount is tiny…75 food for feudal and 120f 30 g for castle. That’s way too little and they are one use only. I would rather have a real eco bonus or a military discount instead.
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Also, if at least italians had siege engineers, the discount would make more sense…
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I don’t think so. Ballistics now can be researched as soon as you hit castle and build a university. As for feudal, if it’ll be necessary I think that I’ll be enough to buff the age up to 20%.
In fact I suggest to buff it to 100f for feudal, 160f and 40g for castle, 200f and 160g for imp. Combined with the university discount can be enough.
Yeah but not a lot of civs have a feudal age that stronger than Italians. They can survive feudal age, and then strike back in castle.
In any way, we’ll have to see how they’ll perform.
This may be another potential buff to the civs for a future patch. Also having a discounted university (like 100w).
There are several options. Boosting the age up works, and also extending the 33% discount to some other techs, like TC ones.
Also I like how they handled camels for saracens: part of the UT becomes a civ bonus. Maybe they can do the same with pavise, replacing its effect with “UUs +1/1 armor”. Then Italians can have the +1/1 as civ bonus on their archer line.
Guys have you tested the new Italians? I mean theory crafting is nice and all, but maybe play them a couple of games first so we can see what the change does. They certainly got a nice buff for land maps and are no longer the only water civ we see in 1v1 islands. That’s a very good thing.
I don’t think they need new discounts, or to extend the 33% one.
If you buff the age up to 20%, you already more than cover the small gap in castle age between the old 50% bonus and the new 33%. They would still lose about 350 resources in imp, but it would be balanced because they would have more resources in castle age.
You also help them towards a stronger fast ballistics strategy, I think it can work. But let’s see how they perform now, even if I think that most people will give priority to the 2 new civs.
I think pavise is fine, if you change it like you suggested it’ll be just another reason to prefer xbows over GC.
It is just to help the early stages. GC atm is preferred only if there is cavalry from the opponent.
At the moment, standard xbows are preferred over GC even against cav, thanks to the fact that they are cheaper (-20 wood) and don’t require a castle.
Xbows are also more versitile having 1 more range over GC. If you give more armor from feudal (but even if it would start in castle) it’s another reason to prefer the standard xbow.
I mean, why using GC, it requires a castle and costs more, if you also have to grab a tech more for that unit (a tech that also idle one of the buildings needed to train the GC) it’s just another reason to stey with xbows.
We’ll see, but I think that now if they’ll buff the age up discount to 20% it’ll be enough to survive to feudal pressure and then hit back with an early ballistics and chemistry.
Then, set as a civ bonus +1/1 for all archers. The pavise tech would be just for condos. If this is not enough for pavise, it may be extended back to skyrms:
- civ bonus +1/1 armor for archers
- pavise +1/1 armor to condos and something else
or how about we wait to see how the current buffs work before buffing italians further?
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I think the devs are going in the right direction actually. Tbh once they fix the feudal age it would be an example of well balanced civ…
My example was to follow a very smart way adopted for saracens
I would like to see Italians getting “some” bonus for Coinage and Banking, simply for historical reasons. Perhaps just give the civ bonus for University and for Market techs. Or let them research it at full cost, but let them research it instantly.
Though I’ll admit that’s not really the buff Italians need.
Agree.
It would again become an useless UT. The fact that affects condos too is useful, but only when you already have researched for archers and you are transitioning into condos.
If it’ll come out that they’ll need something more, it will be something small, like buffing the bonus from 33% to 35% or 40%, buffing the age up to 20%, or giving them a new bonus that university cost only 100w, or 75w or 50w (like saracens market).
Not all civs need a strong bonus in feudal, especially if they have good bonus in castle age.
Italians have all other university techs tho so the discount is still pretty good. And heck they didn’t even dare give the Burgundian siege engineers to make their BBC OP too, so Italians ain’t getting cheap BBC+cheap siege engineers.
Mmm but 25% more attack is way stronger than a 20% discount… But now italians also have cheaper chemistry…
I don’t think that SE would broke Italians, but I don’t think that it’s necessary either…
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Still no Halbs. 
I don’t think getting Halbs should be much of a big deal for Italians tbh.
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Nah, not on BBCs. And unless HCs stop sucking so much, 25% extra attack is a rather small bonus.
Usually civs which get no halbs have either good camels or a pike bonus. I think it would be ok for italian pikes to be affected by pavise.
Maybe they will with this patch. One of the patch notes mentions fixing a bug affecting the accuracy of gunpower units.
As for the Italian rebalance, I’m not feeling it yet. But I am feeling that possible future buffs will be in the University as University buffs affect both land and water combat (Ballistics, Chemistry, Towers.) Though I still think the Age Up bonus should be 20%. I’ll admit I don’t base this on any quantitative analysis. I want 20% because 15% just feels like a weird number to me 11.